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I've long thought that television market was the best indicator for what most people thought of as their community.
The Los Angeles TV market runs out to the borders of Arizona and Nevada, and way up to Bishop in Inyo County (266 miles from downtown LA, per Google driving directions).
Bishop and all of Inyo County are in the LA TV market, but do you believe that those folks feel part of the Los Angeles "community'? I wonder if they might feel that about the only connection that they really have with LA is getting LA stations on their cable?
This is true for a large number of TV markets, not just LA.
It's pretty hard to compare apples for apples in this because places across the country are so different. The N.E. is so different from the rest of the country that it can't really be compared. Take D.C. and Baltimore for instance. They both fit inside the Atlanta MSA and Chicago MSA yet they each have their own TV market etc. The country is just too different to compare side by side. The south and west sprawl so much cities don't really form one urban area like the BOS-Wash corridor does.
You are absolutely correct. Yes, N.E. is different. Yes, many markets sprawl, but some don't very much.
Be that as it may, markets are in fact compared side-by-side every day in every way. Even if it is not apples-to-apples.
I really am curious to know, since people and businesses and organizations and the media are going to rank markets all the time anyway, do you have any opinions on which criteria might be better to use than others?
Philadelphia market is ranked number 4 in the nation, just behind chicago.
Do you feel that the number 4 TV rank is the only one that matters?
Quote:
Originally Posted by JaySwelly
In TV yes. But it is 8th in radio, 6th in MSA, 7th in CSA, and 5th in Urban Area. Still, Philly is a very huge market in the USA.
Absolutely right on the money. What opinion do you have on which metrics are more or less important?
Quote:
Originally Posted by gwillyfromphilly
The Philly area is made up of multiple radio markets so that's a misleading statistic along with MSA and urban area for other reasons. It's best to just stick with market size for this kind of discussion.
Would you help me understand what you mean by "misleading statistic" as related to Radio Markets?
Just as one example, Lehigh County is in the Allentown-Bethlehem Radio Market, but is ine Philadelphia TV Market. Just a guess, but probably a large percentage of people there affiliate more as Allentown or Lehigh Valley than as Philadelphia, don't you think?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spade
Honestly the tv market has some problems with it as well. None are perfect.
Yes, none are perfect, but please share your thoughts on the relative merits or demerits of the different ways of measuring market size.
Thanks.
Quote:
Originally Posted by kidphilly
Agreed there is no perfect metric
Since none are perfect, which have more or less value, in your opinion?
Do you feel that the number 4 TV rank is the only one that matters?
Absolutely right on the money. What opinion do you have on which metrics are more or less important?
Would you help me understand what you mean by "misleading statistic" as related to Radio Markets?
Just as one example, Lehigh County is in the Allentown-Bethlehem Radio Market, but is ine Philadelphia TV Market. Just a guess, but probably a large percentage of people there affiliate more as Allentown or Lehigh Valley than as Philadelphia, don't you think?
Yes, none are perfect, but please share your thoughts on the relative merits or demerits of the different ways of measuring market size.
Thanks.
Since none are perfect, which have more or less value, in your opinion?
Depends on the question at hand really
You referenced Allentown for example. Its part of its own MSA and UA, part of the Philly TV Market (DMA) and part of the NYC CSA (Same goes for Trenton NJ part of the Philly TV Market connected continuously as part of the UA (though population is not added) and part of the NYC CSA (14 years ago it was actually part of the Philly MSA)
They all kind of do different things
For built up metro size to me UA
For most calculations MSA
For media influence and affiliation DMA
For regional commerce influence CSA
But again no matter which metric there will situations where the criteria of any of these dont always make best sense for a particular place and my comments are more generalized in what I think they do a decent job of measuring
You referenced Allentown for example. Its part of its own MSA and UA, part of the Philly TV Market (DMA) and part of the NYC CSA (Same goes for Trenton NJ part of the Philly TV Market connected continuously as part of the UA (though population is not added) and part of the NYC CSA (14 years ago it was actually part of the Philly MSA)
They all kind of do different things
For built up metro size to me UA
For most calculations MSA
For media influence and affiliation DMA
For regional commerce influence CSA
But again no matter which metric there will situations where the criteria of any of these dont always make best sense for a particular place and my comments are more generalized in what I think they do a decent job of measuring
In regards to the metrics used for the Philly area, this post explains it quite nicely.
For built up metro size to me UA
For most calculations MSA
For media influence and affiliation DMA
For regional commerce influence CSA
But again no matter which metric there will situations where the criteria of any of these dont always make best sense for a particular place and my comments are more generalized in what I think they do a decent job of measuring
Quote:
Originally Posted by gwillyfromphilly
In regards to the metrics used for the Philly area, this post explains it quite nicely.
Thank you both, kidphilly for your thoughtful analysis and gwillyfromphilly for the dittos.
Please allow me a bit of followup.
1. Do you feel that the Arbitron Radio Markets are just irrelevant, or exactly why have you excluded it?
2. Are you aware of any other quantitative metrics which do an even better job of measuring certain aspects of some markets?
The Los Angeles TV market runs out to the borders of Arizona and Nevada, and way up to Bishop in Inyo County (266 miles from downtown LA, per Google driving directions).
I guess that my line of thinking may have made more sense prior to cable and satellite. And I also am thinking more along the lines of news coverage. Neither of those places are covered on our local news. Wouldn't they be better covered by TV stations in Palm Springs and Bakersfield? Or somewhere even closer.
I guess that my line of thinking may have made more sense prior to cable and satellite. And I also am thinking more along the lines of news coverage. Neither of those places are covered on our local news. Wouldn't they be better covered by TV stations in Palm Springs and Bakersfield? Or somewhere even closer.
Apparently, Nielsen does not make their Designated Market Area (DMA) info or maps available online to non-subscribers (at least no one I know can find it if it is out there somewhere).
The FCC has officially adopted these, using the term Television Market Areas (TMAs), as the areas for the cable must-carry/retransmission consent election. (47 CFR § 76.55), and are defined by reference to DMA Market and Demographic Rank Report, by Nielsen Media Research
A number of firms, such as advertising agencies and others, have created maps which may or may not be absolutely up to date with any changes (which I understand are rather rare).
Anyway, here are links to DMA maps of the markets which you mentioned. I am using ones from Newport Media because they are brightly colored and easier to read than some others.
By the way, these humongous TV markets that extend for hundreds of miles are not at all unusual. There are exactly 210 TMAs (DMAs), and maybe up to half of them are quite extensive, covering lots of rural areas, because every square inch of the Lower 48 must be assigned to exactly one TV market.
Hope this sheds some light on the topic.
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