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Having lived in both California and New England, I'm unimpressed. They're big, so what? They're limits on space and they serve no practical purpose.
That's exactly one of their draws. The difficulty of developing mountainous land leaves much of it undeveloped, which leads to more outdoor recreational opportunities. Part of what makes large swaths of Illinois so boring is that its geography has allowed about 90% of it to either be planted with corn or paved. The other 10% is teeming with people trying to get away from the other 90% on the weekends, so you can't help but feel like everyone that you're trying to get away from for a weekend followed you. Maybe endless acres of cornfields gets you off, but you'd be one of the few.
If you don't like cold Grand Rapids is surely not for you. Brrrr... And I mean so is Chicago- but at least it has the great city life to make it worthwhile
You will no doubt hear a lot of city vs city with threads like this one, but let's talk about one key point and leave it at that. I was schooled in Cambridge, MA and used to work around Kendall Sq for a biotech. I later moved to Portland, OR for a job and I will only speak about economy issues when comparing these two cities as I think that's 95% of what matters at your age. When you mention people working in bookstores to get by in Portland, you're right on. That's what really happens! People with MBA's and 5 years experience in their fields in cities x,y,z and when they come to Portland, it's usually because a company relo's them there. Once that company starts downsizing, where do you go? In Chicago, there's more opportunity and job openings than you can count. In Portland, if you get a pink slip at Nike, Intel or SIC....say goodbye. Pack your stuff and get out of the Northwest as there aren't that great of choices. This being said, I do like Portland and Seattle and think they are great choices for folks who's priorities look different than mine. Let me sum it up for you like this.
When I go to the polls to vote, my 2 biggest concerns are:
-Economy
-National Defense (including R&D)
You will no doubt encounter the majority of Portlanders and there's are:
-Welfare
-Education
Good luck!
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Originally Posted by GucciLittlePiggie
(I'm sure you guys get annoying posts like this a lot, but I need some help. Sorry!)
So I live about 45 min outside Boston, I'm 25, and engaged. My fiancee and I are looking to move in spring 2009. I work in biotech, and she's almost done with an MBA, hoping for marketing or HR jobs. The main reasons for moving are the crappy weather here from late October --> early May, the fact that a 600k house is 1200 sq ft with no yard, and just for something different. Maybe more outdoor opportunities, less crowded (MA isn't so big, you see...), etc. Anyways, we had been focused on Portland, OR for awhile now. They seem to have low housing costs, compared to here, and a lot of nature stuff, good microbrews, wine, local food, etc. We're both liberal, but mainstream, and Portland seems good for that if you don't mind the freaks
Anyways, the obvious problems I see presented are the fact that it rains there a lot Nov-April, and this is preferable to snow, but might get depressing, compared to clear winter days of fresh snow. Also, I guess the job market is quite bad there. We're worried we're going to wind up working at a bookstore or something, stuck in gloomy weather. How does Chicago fit in to this? Is it reasonable for 2 college-educated late-20-somethings to make a combined 90k there? Or enough to buy a normal house? What is the shopping like (malls, little shops, etc)? What are the people like, friendly, conservative, liberal, diverse, straight-laced, weirdos, dressy, casual?? What kind of cars do people drive? Are there cool lofts or apartments downtown? Do people in my demographic typically live in suburbs, downtown, or certain sections? Is the weather nice? I'd really love some thoughts on the good, the bad, and any suggestions....on Chicago, Portland, other places, whatever.
Sorry this was so long and rambling. Thanks very much for anyone who responds!
This is one of the strangest (if not dumbest) things I've ever read on the internet.
I don't know, I sort of get what he's saying. Mountains are beautiful and all, but they are not nearly as useful as flat land with fertile soil. That's one of the saving graces of the midwest, in my opinion. I kinda like seeing the land worked up every spring, watching the crops grow, watching them being harvested. As opposed to just... watching rocks sit there and slowly erode over the course of millions of years.
But you almost have to grow up in the rural midwest to appreciate it. I'm not sure why that is. I can appreciate mountains AND farm land. But people from urban areas only seem to be able to appreciate mountains/forests/coasts. Does that mean I'm more open minded?
I don't know, I sort of get what he's saying. Mountains are beautiful and all, but they are not nearly as useful as flat land with fertile soil.
That's not true at all.
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That's one of the saving graces of the midwest, in my opinion. I kinda like seeing the land worked up every spring, watching the crops grow, watching them being harvested. As opposed to just... watching rocks sit there and slowly erode over the course of millions of years.
There no "saving grace" about millions upon millions of acres of developed land that is soaked with pesticides and where the water in the rivers isn't fit for drinking. Also, biodiversity has been wiped out in these areas. Key predator species are assaulted non-stop based on ignorance and a monoculture mentality.
Mountain and forest ecosystems provide CLEAN drinking water for 100 million Americans, provide habitat for the rarest animals on earth, including grizzly bears, wolverines, bull trout, and other imperiled species.The quality of the habitat in many of these ecoystems is first-rate (The Rocky Mountain Front in Montana, Yellowstone National Park, Glacier National Park). They also act as air purifiers, carbon sinks, and temperature moderators.
This is why you'll find most national parks in the mountain and forest ecosystems. There's nothing wild in any sense about the Midwest except for the Northwoods, and even that doesn't begin to cut it (with the exception of Northern Minnesota).
While farmland is important, don't forget what that actually was at one time - pristine prairie, with bison, elk, wolves, and mountain lion and rivers you could drink from. That no longer exists. We wiped it out and developed it for farms and strip malls and subdivisions. Rugged moutnain and forest ecosystems are not only a last refuge for the most development-sensitive speices but they are last refuges FOR US in regards to clean air, clean water, and space.
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But you almost have to grow up in the rural midwest to appreciate it. I'm not sure why that is. I can appreciate mountains AND farm land. But people from urban areas only seem to be able to appreciate mountains/forests/coasts. Does that mean I'm more open minded?
No, it means you just don't understand how ecosystems work, no offense.
You could start by reading this site, which will change forever how you look at the landscape.
The most important landscape we have is roadless landscape, and it is disappearing:
Notice how almost all of the roadless areas left are in the west? Very simple reasons for that. These areas, by default, are the most pristine places in the U.S., with the best species diversity, air quality, water quality, and habitat. They act as "core buffers" for the land around them. Think of rings of habitat quality, with the core roadless areas in the center, and getting progressively weaker until the rings hit the cities.
There no "saving grace" about millions upon millions of acres of developed land that is soaked with pesticides and where the water in the rivers isn't fit for drinking. Also, biodiversity has been wiped out in these areas. Key predator species are assaulted non-stop based on ignorance and a monoculture mentality.
Mountain and forest ecosystems provide CLEAN drinking water for 100 million Americans, provide habitat for the rarest animals on earth, including grizzly bears, wolverines, bull trout, and other imperiled species.The quality of the habitat in many of these ecoystems is first-rate (The Rocky Mountain Front in Montana, Yellowstone National Park, Glacier National Park). They also act as air purifiers, carbon sinks, and temperature moderators.
...
I don't remember saying that I like the Midwest because of the intact ecosystem here. Did I miss something?
I was giving my opinion that I like and appreciate the appearance of farmland in the Midwest, and also the fact that acre upon acre of crops are grown here. And yes, the physical appearance that I am commenting on includes many man-made structures, such as big red barns, houses, and mile after mile of roads. I also am fully aware that the landscape has been altered big time by humans. My area in particular was mostly forested at one time (not prairie), and now it is a combination of cleared land and square patches of woods. I also know that farmers are not always respectful of the ecosystem. I own 7 acres of land next to farmland. Farmers like to use the woods as a place to collect piles of rocks that have been picked from the fields, or to dump corn stubble after the harvest.
Anyway, the point is that I have two eyes, just like you, and my eyes are telling me that the surrounding landscape here is pleasing to the eye, regardless of how it ended up looking this way. If you can only find pleasure from looking at land that is untouched by humans, you are going to spend a lot of time being disgusted with your surroundings, because humans are everywhere, and they are multiplying. Thankfully we have large-scale agriculture in the Midwest so that we can at least attempt to feed all of them.
Oh, and for the record... I love it out west. It is amazing for all of the reasons you have stated. I am not debating that.
Last edited by michigan83; 07-25-2012 at 08:29 PM..
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I'd really love some thoughts on the good, the bad, and any suggestions....on Chicago, Portland, other places, whatever.
