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But there are very few whites at all. The white population in the same census tracts I mentioned above range from 5 to 9%. I haven't looked up the income stats, but I believe I did once before, and those tracts are very poor. So if poor minorities make up 90-95% of the people living in those tracts, then why wouldn't it be the case that most of the people you see walking around are poor minorities? I mean, is it any different in any other poor, majority-minority neighborhood? When I go to Harlem, I see largely black and brown faces, and they're mostly poor.
Maybe because Koreatown is a major business district and there are wealthy Koreans?
But there are very few whites at all. The white population in the same census tracts I mentioned above range from 5 to 9%. I haven't looked up the income stats, but I believe I did once before, and those tracts are very poor. So if poor minorities make up 90-95% of the people living in those tracts, then why wouldn't be the case that most of the people you see walking around are poor minorities? I mean, is it any different in any other poor, majority-minority neighborhood? When I go to Harlem, I see largely black and brown faces, and they're mostly poor.
I would say yes, its very different than Harlem in that regard. Yes there are a good amount of poor Mexican, Salvadorian, and Guatemalan residents that fit that pattern but the Korean residents are anything but poor. They're not coming to America to escape hardship like immigrants from the south. They're coming because they were priced out of Seoul and they see America as a much better deal. They are mostly upper-middle and wealthy class.
In terms of whites, I'm guessing that 5 to 9% number is out of date as of 2014. We moved out last November, and at that point I would say our neighborhood was 20% white and climbing. Koreatown is cheap compared to the hot adjacent neighborhoods that have become unaffordable like Silver Lake, Echo Park, and Downtown so Koreatown is the next stop for the 20-something hipster crowd. I mean hell...2 boutique hotels in the heart of K-town catering to that crowd opened in the last few months alone:
Beyond the superficial differences in architecture, I'm just not seeing a massive difference here. Certainly not night and day like you're making it sound.
And what you provided in streetview is the probably the best residential urbanity (meaning outside of the CBD) Los Angeles can possibly offer. If L.A. could hold the form you picked (solid streetwalls, compactness, good pedestrian-design elements, etc.) for, say, 4 or 5 sq. miles contiguously, then people would have a totally different perception of the city. But as it stands now, that form only stays in place for 4 to 5 blocks in any one direction before breaking down to auto-centric design.
As one poster put it.
Quote:
What LA lacks is the critical mass and contiguity necessary for a true urban culture to develop. Traveling from node to node (by car no less) makes the experiences in these urban pockets ephemeral at best. What's more, these nodes are more than likely linear commercial strips (i.e. Wilshire through the Miracle Mile or Pasadena's Colorado Blvd). Even if we were to connect these centers through a comprehensive rail network, the experience would be diluted by the long travel times in between.
LA needs to develop its city center. Downtown is the only place in LA where a contiguous, three-dimensional urban environment can sustain itself over several square miles. It is the only place in LA where you would be able to walk in any given direction and not experience a drop-off in action and intensity. This is the mark of pedestrian culture and it's how other cities exist.
What is the current argument here at this point honestly.
Is it that LA should be in the top 5 for this threads particular metric? I think most who have played in this thread would strongly put in the top 10 but likely not in the tp 5. So what is the argument at this point?
LA has a lot of urbanity, what it does not have is cohesive urbanity on the whole though actually does quite well againt even on this metric against most US cities - isnt that something we all can agree on?
Well I can't argue with the fact that it gets dumpier and more sparse to the south. 7th and Berendo is already the south side of K-town and below K-town things definitely do get quite auto oriented. Try going 4 blocks North, West, or East and you will see a different picture.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BajanYankee
And what you provided in streetview is the probably the best residential urbanity (meaning outside of the CBD) Los Angeles can possibly offer. If L.A. could hold the form you picked (solid streetwalls, compactness, good pedestrian-design elements, etc.) for, say, 4 or 5 sq. miles contiguously, then people would have a totally different perception of the city. But as it stands now, that form only stays in place for 4 to 5 blocks in any one direction before breaking down to auto-centric design.
As one poster put it.
I can't argue with that either. I don't think anyone here would argue that LA doesn't have its gaps. Part of the fun of living here at this moment in time seeing those gaps fill in. There's a reason we have one of the most active forums over at SkyscraperPage.
What is the current argument here at this point honestly.
Is it that LA should be in the top 5 for this threads particular metric? I think most who have played in this thread would strongly put in the top 10 but likely not in the tp 5. So what is the argument at this point?
LA has a lot of urbanity, what it does not have is cohesive urbanity on the whole though actually does quite well againt even on this metric against most US cities - isnt that something we all can agree on?
I would say yes, its very different than Harlem in that regard. Yes there are a good amount of poor Mexican, Salvadorian, and Guatemalan residents that fit that pattern but the Korean residents are anything but poor. They're not coming to America to escape hardship like immigrants from the south. They're coming because they were priced out of Seoul and they see America as a much better deal. They are mostly upper-middle and wealthy class.
The Census won't let me see how wealthy the Koreans are specifically. But we can see how well Asians as a whole are doing in Koreatown. They're doing better than Hispanics in Koreatown, but far worse than Asians in the metro as a whole. 34.6% of Asian households in Koreatown earn less than $30,000 per year. 53.3% earn less than $40,000 per year. That's really not a whole lot of money in Los Angeles. The median HHI for Asians is around $40,000 whereas the median HHI for Asians in the MSA is around $69,000.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DistrictDirt
In terms of whites, I'm guessing that 5 to 9% number is out of date as of 2014. We moved out last November, and at that point I would say our neighborhood was 20% white and climbing.
I can't see what your specific neighborhood is. I can only see Census tracts. And as of 2012, there were still very few whites.
I don't think amenities really have that much to do with walkability. You can have only a few stores and generate tons of pedestrian traffic and you can have tons of stores and have far weaker pedestrian traffic and more auto use.
I think munchitup is focusing on how much there is to walk to rather urban design or pedestrian volume. The North End has pedestrian friendly design, but lacks a supermarket in walking distance, so for day to day living on foot, there's some issues.
I think munchitup is focusing on how much there is to walk to rather urban design or pedestrian volume. The North End has pedestrian friendly design, but lacks a supermarket in walking distance, so for day to day living on foot, there's some issues.
But the implication is that amenities bear a very strong relationship to walkability. That's why he said the following:
Quote:
Originally Posted by munchitup
The core of Boston is more walkable than the core of LA, for sure (though the downtowns themselves are about on the same level, Boston's being more upscale).
When grapico asked him what he meant by that, he said:
Quote:
Originally Posted by munchitup
Yes Boston is much better in that regard, all over the city really. I was going off of amenities within the downtown areas. They are about equal in grocery stores, restaurants, nightclubs, etc.
It's one thing to say that they are equal in terms of restaurants, stores, bars, etc. Okay. But in the first statement, it's clear that he believes Downtown Boston and L.A. are about equal in "walkability," and the second statement seems to suggest he believes that's the case because they have roughly the same number of amenities.
It's munchitup's statement so he can clarify it. But that's how I read those two statements in tandem.
But the implication is that amenities bear a very strong relationship to walkability. That's why he said the following:
When grapico asked him what he meant by that, he said:
It's one thing to say that they are equal in terms of restaurants, stores, bars, etc. Okay. But in the first statement, it's clear that he believes Downtown Boston and L.A. are about equal in "walkability," and the second statement seems to suggest he believes that's the case because they have roughly the same number of amenities.
It's munchitup's statement so he can clarify it. But that's how I read those two statements in tandem.
The problem I have with this whole conversation is that "LA" is so big and has so many walkable nodes that I think that some people exclusively focus on one part of town and dismiss that combined LA Area. Walkscore doesn't take into account Santa Monica, West Hollywood, Culver City or Long beach which are separate cities but are part of the fabric of what makes LA. The only thing that LA is missing is the train system as it doesn't go everywhere, yet.
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