What is each state's "Second" city?

[RaymondChandlerLives]

Originally Posted by anonelitist

Examples? Lots of ideas and concepts are rolling out of the Bay Area. I'm honestly baffled as to what "creative" things are coming out of LA, at least in more notable fashion/mass than what's coming out of any other particular city, like NYC, Boston, etc.

I think scientists working on the cure for cancer are creative people trying to think outside the box/realm of possibilities. They may find the cure in the Bay Area - it probably won't be found in LA. So while I'm not saying LA isn't creative, I'm asking what makes it particularly more creative than the Bay Area? Or Boston? Or New York? Or Seattle?

One thing SF has over LA is its compactness/density of people. yes, LA is as dense on paper. But the way the city works and functions is not dense at all. SF packs it all in. Ideas are more easily bounced around. It seems half the population is working in a startup, for them self. And they come from IA with an idea and an ambition to see it through. It's not all Apple Watch or Google Glass or IBM chips. You also have lots of eccentric people in SF. As there are in LA, too. Like very eccentric people. I don't think there are any two other cities with the concentration of truly eccentric people as in either LA or SF.

So where does LA dominate SF in "creativity"?

I had no idea doctors worked in a creative industry, but whatever. I'm sure there have many scientific, medical, and aeronautic breakthroughs in the Los Angeles. The Internet, anyone? The Space Program? Space X alone will revolutionize the way we explore space. Not as sexy as Amazon Pantry, but a pretty big deal IMO.

L.A. Is the Creative Capital of the World: Report

In the Los Angeles region, 1 in 6 residents work in a creative industry. Assuming the study is going by MSA, that equals 2.16 million residents-- nearly as many people as Seattle, San Francisco and Boston COMBINED.

[jessemh431]

Originally Posted by RaymondChandlerLives

You know LA is a beast when you have to remove part of its MSA to make it a fair fight.

Seriously such a joke. He's comparing a single county to an MSA and the largest county in the region. When just A SINGLE COUNTY of the LA MSA can take on the ENTIRE SF MSA & SANTA CLARA COUNTY, you know that Greater LA is better.

SF may dominate NorCal, but it is still not the most prominent city in the state. By that logic, Pensacola could be #2 in FL because it's so far away from Miami and has a stronger influence on the FL Panhandle. Reno would be tied for #1 with Vegas. El Paso would be tied for #1. Buffalo would be tied for #1. Savannah would be tied for #1. Yeah, they all have huge influences on a different part of their respective states. However, it is clear they are not the #1 city of the ENTIRE STATE. SF is #1 in NorCal. But in terms of dominance on the ENTIRE state, LA is #1 in CA. No questions. Back to not discussing this topic again because clearly your inferiority complex is showing. Go cry to other San Franciscans about how horrible LA is. Nobody wants to hear you anymore on here. You lost. Done. Stop. Bye.

[anonelitist]

Originally Posted by RaymondChandlerLives

I had no idea doctors worked in a creative industry, but whatever. I'm sure there have many scientific, medical, and aeronautic breakthroughs in the Los Angeles. The Internet, anyone? The Space Program? Space X alone will revolutionize the way we explore space. Not as sexy as Amazon Pantry, but a pretty big deal IMO.

L.A. Is the Creative Capital of the World: Report

In the Los Angeles region, 1 in 6 residents work in a creative industry. Assuming the study is going by MSA, that equals 2.16 million residents-- nearly as many people as Seattle, San Francisco and Boston COMBINED.

You're going to attribute the entire Internet, Space Program, and Space X to "Los Angeles"?

RE: Internet, if you're talking about ARPANET, that was a program where a terminal in the Pentagon connected to 3 other terminals - 1 in Santa Monica (perhaps that's what you're referring to), 1 in Berkeley, and 1 at MIT.

General development of the Internet as we know it (and now transitioning into the Internet of Things, et al) is mostly done in the Bay Area, where the vast majority of tech/internet/software/hardware breakthroughs occur (and have for decades now).

The Space Program? Pasadena? Vandenburg up in SB County? Important sites, nonetheless, but the Space Program is more than just what happens in LA, or super greater LA. As someone originally from FL and a graduate of a university with one of the top engineering schools in the country, I take offense at the idea that a program that big can be led by a team or teams on one site in one city or area. A LOT goes into the Space Program and I'm absolutely positive the vast bulk isn't coming from developments in Pasadena. There probably is no one single site responsible for the bulk of breakthroughs/developments, but I can tell you that Stanford and Berkeley and their research offshoots also play a large role and do their part to contribute.

Space X - again, the aeronautical part no doubt is centered in greater greater LA (Vandenburg, the launch site, is in SB County). But Elon Musk is/was CEO of 2 Bay Area companies and is well connected there as a result. If you don't think he's pulling in Bay Area minds to help with his program, you're nutso.


You're link makes it clear that "creative" in their definition is:

Entertainment (40% LAC)
Fashion (31% LAC)
Furniture, Home & Garden (10%)
Fine & Performing Arts (9%)
"Toys" (4%)
Digital Media (3%)
Communication Arts (2%)

etc etc

Like I said before, I wouldn't deny that these are all "creative" industries, but in my view (which is not their view, and NEITHER is official), tech and biotech are quite creative.

I think you'd find that no, the Bay Area does not maintain its pro rata share of Entertainment revenue, or Fashion, or Furniture/Home/Garden, or "toys" since Mattel isn't based in the Bay Area. If that means LA is so much more "creative" than the Bay Area because only those industries could possibly be creative (if Transformers 5 is creative to you I guess), then so be it.

[18Montclair]

Originally Posted by RaymondChandlerLives

You know LA is a beast when you have to remove part of its MSA to make it a fair fight.

Absolutely, LA is a beast, congrats, rawr, lol...but it just so happens that California has two beasts.

Northern California's GDP has in all likelihood surpassed $1 Trillion in 2015, SF is a prominent world city and is part of one of the most vital economic regions on earth and the Bay Area is the premier destination for business, jobs, culture and leisure in Nor Cal. I wont even entertain the notion that LAs ( considerable) dominance reaches beyond Bakersfield.

There is no such duo of such prominent cities in any state or province of any country in the world. So to blithely ignore that makes no sense imo.

[18Montclair]

Originally Posted by jessemh431

He's comparing a
single county to an MSA and the largest
county in the region. When just A SINGLE
COUNTY of the LA MSA can take on the
ENTIRE SF MSA & SANTA CLARA COUNTY,

Haha dont be a hypocrite.

Just a few posts ago, you talked about how unfair it is to compare the small physical size of NorCal counties to massive SoCal counties and now you are pretending that your "SINGLE COUNTY" is handicapped vs a few counties up north?

haha NOPE, you dont get to have it both ways. Read 'em and weap.


and what the heck is wrong with the Inland Empire.,Ugh.

[Zizilicious]

Originally Posted by 18Montclair

Absolutely, LA is a beast, congrats, rawr, lol...but it just so happens that California has two beasts.

Northern California's GDP has in all likelihood surpassed $1 Trillion in 2015, SF is a prominent world city and is part of one of the most vital economic regions on earth and the Bay Area is the premier destination for business, jobs, culture and leisure in Nor Cal. I wont even entertain the notion that LAs ( considerable) dominance reaches beyond Bakersfield.

There is no such duo of such prominent cities in any state or province of any country in the world. So to blithely ignore that makes no sense imo.

Oh ma gawwd yess. Cali cant be beat like forreal...

2 World class mega cities, both cities have a gdp over a trillion, both fun cities to live in, whether its norcal or socal yoh cant go wrong.

L.A. and San Francisco are beasts ayyy

[jessemh431]

Originally Posted by 18Montclair

Haha dont be a hypocrite.

Just a few posts ago, you talked about how unfair it is to compare the small physical size of NorCal counties to massive SoCal counties and now you are pretending that your "SINGLE COUNTY" is handicapped vs a few counties up north?

haha NOPE, you dont get to have it both ways. Read 'em and weap.


and what the heck is wrong with the Inland Empire.,Ugh.

At this point you're basically trolling. Obviously when SoCal counties are larger than NorCal counties, more people will live within them and there will be less commuting from outside of them. Because they cover larger geographic areas. I never said that a single county is handicapped against a few counties up north. You're proving my point. The single county of Los Angeles, which is comparably similar in physical size to the main 6 counties of Bay Area, but much larger in population, beats the entire Bay Area. By removing the LA MSA, LA still won. If you were to remove the SF MSA from SF, it would be a joke.

I guess the fact that LA has more tech jobs than Santa Clara is irrelevant to you also. Yeah, Santa Clara is a much smaller county, but when the pride of your county is one sector that LA county can rival, LA is superior. Santa Clara doesn't come close in the shipping, air traffic, industrial, entertainment or tourism fields. However, LA certainly holds its own in the tech scene. Ever heard of Silicon Beach? There's no "Hollywood" anything in the Bay. That's Vancouver. Vancouver is "Hollywood North."
LAEDC Report: High Tech Employment Key Driver in LA Economy - Office of Los Angeles Mayor Eric Garcetti
Los Angeles County Boasts Strong Tech Economy | NBC Southern California

City National Economy & Jobs Report First Quarter 2015 | City National Bank

According to your statistics, SF MSA and Santa Clara County have a GDP of almost $582 billion. According to the LA Chamber of Commerce the city of LA alone has a GDP of $577.5 billion. Our one city competes with nearly two entire MSAs. How is this not getting through your thick skull? Yes. SF is the juggernaut of NorCal. But LA is the juggernaut of the state of CA. Just because LA doesn't influence NorCal as much as SF does doesn't mean LA is not the #1 city of the state.

Add in the actual MSA with Orange County. Yes, LA-OC is tied together for economic purposes. You claiming OC shouldn't be added? That's like saying SJ and SF can hold their own. They don't need each other. Newark and Jersey City don't need NYC. Fort Lauderdale doesn't need Miami. They don't need the other, but they're so intrinsically a part of each other they have a single identity.

According to Wiki from 2014:
SF/Oak/Fremont MSA=$388.3
SJ/Sunnyvale/Santa Clara MSA=$196.8
________________________________
Total=$585.1

Just the city of Los Angeles can compete with the entire Bay Area.

LA/OC MSA=$826.8
Riverside/San Bernardino/Ontario MSA=$126.8
________________________________
Total=$953.6

The closest example of this situation I can think of is the Madrid-Barcelona competition. Most other rivalries are too close (OH and TX) or too easy in the U.S. In Spain, Barcelona has a huge influence on Catalonia and can hold its own on a global level. It could run Catalonia and quite a few neighboring parts of Spain on its own. Barcelona does not rely on Madrid for everything just like how SF does not rely on LA for everything. But someone claiming Barcelona to be the premier city in Spain over Madrid would be crazy.

Italy? Yeah Milan and Rome are the most important cities in the country. Milan controls the North. Rome controls the South. Milan does not rely on Rome for everything. It could go back to being its own nation one day with no problems and hold its own globally. However, Rome is obviously Italy's #1 city.

Sao Paulo and Rio. Rio doesn't need Sao Paulo. Rio is a global city all on its own. But Sao Paulo is Brazil's #1 city.

It's seriously such an easy concept to grasp. At this point, I think you know you've lost and continue to not back down and admit that LA is better. SF admitting LA is better at anything will be harder than getting the Turks to admit the Armenian Genocide. LA's GDP is bigger. Population is bigger. It's more important on a national and international level. I just provided articles of LA being able to compete with the Bay in even the tech sector. While SF may have the momentum, LA is already there. We're already just behind the big dogs of London and NYC. SF has a long way to go to even catch LA, let alone be just a step underneath those. And LA may be lagging, but every city goes through a small lull. LA might be slowing a little right now, but it'll never cease to be the prominent city of the entire West Coast. Unless of course CA runs out of water. Then the Bay is just as screwed anyways.

[Trafalgar Law]

Originally Posted by 18Montclair

Welcome to California.

Facts: Within California, Finance,
Technology, Manufacturing, Energy, Jobs,
Politics, etc. are centered in the Bay Area in
2015.

Okay, "facts."

I don't see the need to list each industry, since all of them combine under GDP anyways and are given a monetary value of their combined worth.

Countries
01. United States: $16.8 Trillion
02. China: $9.240 Trillion
03. Japan: $4.901 Trillion
04. Germany: $3.634 Trillion
05. France: $2.735 Trillion
06. United Kingdom: $2.522 Trillion
07. Brazil: $2.245 Trillion
08. Russia: $2.097 Trillion
09. Italy: $2.071 Trillion
10. India: $1.876 Trillion
11. Canada: $1.825 Trillion
12. Australia: $1.560 Trillion
13. Spain: $1.358 Trillion
14. South Korea: $1.304 Trillion
15. Mexico: $1.261 Trillion
--. Greater Los Angeles: $1 Trillion
16. Indonesia: $868.346 Billion
17. Turkey: $820.207 Billion
18, Netherlands: $800.173 Billion
19. Saudi Arabia: $745.273 Billion
--. Greater San Francisco Bay Area: $664.687 Billion
20. Switzerland: $650.782 Billion
21. Argentina: $611.755 Billion
22. Sweden: $557.938 Billion
23. Nigeria: $522.638 Billion
24. Poland: $517.543 Billion
25. Norway: $512.580 Billion
26. Belgium: $$508.116 Billion
27. Venezuela: $438.284 Billion
28. Austria: $415.844 Billion
29. Thailand: $ 387.252 Billion
30. United Arab Emirates: $383.799 Billion
31. Colombia: $378.148 Billion
32. Iran: $368.904 Billion
33. South Africa: $350.630 Billion
34. Denmark: $330.814 Billion
35. Malaysia: $312.435 Billion
36. Singapore: $297.941 Billion
37. Israel: $291.375 Billion
38. Chile: $277.199 Billion
39. Hong Kong: $274.013 Billion
40. Philippines: $272,017 Billion
41. Egypt: $271.973 Billion
42. Finland: $256.842 Billion
43. Greece: $241.721 Billion
44. Pakistan: $236.625 Billion
45. Kazakhstan: $224.415 Billion
46. Iraq: $222.879 Billion
47. Portugal: $219.962 Billion
48. Ireland: $217.816 Billion
49. Algeria: $210.183 Billion
50. Qatar: $202.450 Billion
51. Peru: $202.296 Billion
52. Czech Republic: $198.450 Billion
53. Romania: $189.638 Billion
54. Kuwait: $183.219 Billion
55. New Zealand: $182.594 Billion
56. Ukraine: $177.431 Billion
57. Vietnam: $171.392 Billion

States
01. California: $2.202 Trillion
02. Texas: $1.532 Trillion
03. New York (state): $1.311 Trillion
--. Greater Los Angeles: $1 Trillion
04. Florida: $800.492 Billion
05. Illinois: $720.692 Billion
--. Greater San Francisco Bay Area: $664.687 Billion
06. Pennsylvania: $644.915 Billion
07. Ohio: $565.272 Billion
08. New Jersey: $543.071 Billion
09. North Carolina: $471.365 Billion
10. Virginia: $454.585 Billion
11. Georgia: $454.532 Billion
12. Massachusetts: $446.323 Billion
13. Michigan: $432.573 Billion
14. Washington (state): $408.049
15. Maryland: $342.382 Billion
16. Indiana: $317.102 Billion
17. Minnesota: $312.081 Billions
18. Colorado: $294.443 Billion
19. Tennessee: $287.633 Billion
20. Wisconsin: $282.486 Billion
21. Arizona: $279.024 Billion
22. Missouri: $276.345 Billion
23. Louisiana: $253.576 Billion
24. Connecticut: $249.251 Billion
25. Oregon: $219.590 Billion
26. Alabama: $193.566 Billion
27. South Carolina: $183.561 Billion
28. Kentucky: $183.373 Billion
29. Oklahoma: $182.086 Billion

In California itself:
- Greater Los Angeles: $1 Trillion
- Greater San Francisco Bay Area + Greater San Diego + Greater Sacramento (combined): $970.738 Billion

To summarize:
- Greater Los Angeles is able to easily dispatch the combined economies of the San Francisco Bay Area, San Diego, and Sacramento put together. All of which are California's next three most prominent cities in addition to one being the state political capital. Characteristic of a state's premier city? Check.
- Greater Los Angeles is able to easily dispatch 47 out of 50 states in the United States (save for the whole of CA, TX, and NY). If it were a state, it would have the fourth largest economy in the country and join only 3 states (same mentioned ones) with over $1 Trillion dollar economy. Characteristic of a state's premier/most economically important city? Check.
- Greater Los Angeles is able to easily dispatch 199 of the world's 214 "countries" and is only behind a small organized amount of 15. If it were a country, it would have the 16th largest economy on the planet and would join only the 1-15 countries ahead of it in having an economy over $1 Trillion dollars. Characteristic of a state's premier/most economically vital city? Check.

All of this in addition to serving as the global medium in which people witness California's culture, image, and personality (thanks to the entertainment industry), people funnel in and out of California (thanks to infrastructure in seaports and airports), and people migrate into Caifornia (Los Angeles' diversity is only matched by few cities in the world, New York is the only one topping it in the United States; ethnic, national, all subsets of diversity. Not that racial component you keep flashing from that Brown University research article).

Looks like Greater Los Angeles is in fact California's number one city. I agree, San Francisco Bay Area is a dominant place in Northern California, just as Los Angeles is over Southern California. However this is like Boston being a dominant place over New England and New York being a dominant place over the former "Middle Colonies." Each reign over their respective sub-regions but the difference is that Boston and San Francisco defer to their larger megacity sisters to their south on a state/United States region basis (Northeast/South/Midwest/West). New York is the premier city of the Northeast just as Los Angeles is the premier city of California. Boston and San Francisco have their spheres of influence around New England and Northern California but lets not push it.

Case closed.

[18Montclair]

Originally Posted by jessehm431

The single county of Los
Angeles, which is comparably similar in
physical size to the main 6 counties of Bay
Area, but much larger in population, beats
the entire Bay Area.

Essentially, there are like 3 million useless people in LA because if LA county were on the Bay Area's level as far as productivity, the county gdp would be $911 billion.

And lmao at that bogus, non govt city gdp stat...yawns.

Originally Posted by Red John

. New York is the premier city
of the Northeast just as Los Angeles is the
premier city of California. Boston and San
Francisco have their spheres of influence
around New England and Northern
California but lets not push it.

Fallacy.

NY and Boston are NOT in the same state and LA is not as dominant across multiple industries as NY is.

You are simply incorrect.

Case closed.

What we are aware of is that California' s wealth and power is not dominated by one CSA.

As I stated earlier:
There is no duo of such prominent
cities in any state or province of any country
in the world.

Nowhere.

Nice try tho.

[Trafalgar Law]

Originally Posted by 18Montclair

Fallacy.

NY and Boston are NOT in the same state and LA is not as dominant across multiple industries as NY is.

You are simply incorrect.

It is just an analogy. A comparison to the type of relationship that persists between each set of cities I used.

Originally Posted by 18Montclair

Essentially, there are like 3 million useless people in LA because if LA county were on the Bay Area's level as far as productivity, the county gdp would be $911 billion.

And lmao at that bogus, non govt city gdp stat...yawns.

Yes, but Greater Los Angeles still has a larger economy than the next three California metropolises combined. A larger economy than 47 out of 50 states. A larger economy than 199 out of 214 countries in the world. All facts.

Originally Posted by 18Montclair

As I stated earlier:
There is no duo of such prominent
cities in any state or province of any country
in the world.

Nowhere.

Nice try tho.

Yes duo. Nice way to put it actually and I agree. No other state has a pair of cities that can make a 1-2 tandem like California.

However a duo means two. Two means one is ahead and the other behind. Let me put it in a way a Bay Area, especially Oaklander like you can understand this. Los Angeles is Stephen Curry, the San Francisco Bay Area is Klay Thompson. Both are incredible and together form a duo that comprises as potentially the best NBA backcourt in history. However one (Curry) is a superstar, supremely gifted, and far more marketable than the other (Thompson) who is also very skilled, quite talented, and versatile but not on Curry's level. He can do anything he wants, he wont ever be on Curry's level but he doesn't have to be, they are both on the same team, so they are playing for the same team goal. Sort of like Los Angeles and San Francisco in relation to California, competitive sibling cities, but at the same time both only enhance California and make the state better overall.

That is the type of duo California has. That same type of 1-2 punch.

Case closed. Night.