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Not sure, because I lived in Chicago, I am accustomed to talking about it here with people. With Toronto, because I never lived there, I haven't discussed it yet with anyone. I'll have to ask some of the people I know here but they do have a far more favorable opinion of Canada as a country to the United States. Most would rather take up residence in Canada than America from what I've heard so far, though those same most would also entertain a few select spots in America too. Most would rather visit America than Canada though, it offers more to see and people are genuinely intrigued by some American cities (namely from what I can tell New York, Miami, Los Angeles, San Francisco, Boston) but have a low opinion of much of the rest. Even though people show interest in Los Angeles, most people that I have talked to that haven't been want to see it, but some of them still hold stigmatized opinions of Los Angeles and often trash it for some of its superficial (often fictional) characteristics. Really the only American cities with a clean and reputable image out here from what I can tell so far are New York, Boston, and San Francisco.
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Yeah, I think there is quite a bit of truth in the idea that Canada has a better reputation than the U.S. worldwide, but part of it is because most people are vague on the details about Canada.
The U.S., for all its faults, is way more well known to people worldwide, and also seen by most as more interesting IMO.
Outside of U.S./Canada, I think Montreal is still slightly better known than Toronto. This will probably change with time, but if you ask a random person worldwide, I think they would be slightly more familar with Montreal, and would guess it is Canada's primate city.
I'd say that overall around the world, Toronto and Montreal are pretty equal in terms of renown as Canada's primate city. Which is saying something when you consider that Toronto's metro has 2 million more people than Montreal, making it close to 50% larger.
But it varies greatly according to where you are in the world. Anywhere in the world where people speak French, Montreal is THE Canadian city. So this covers off a chunk of Europe and of course much of Africa and the Middle East. On the other hand, you'd find Montreal is very much off the radar (or at least, no more on it and maybe less than Calgary or Ottawa) in countries like India and China. Both of which have a huge chunk of the world's population.
Toronto and Montreal are probably fairly equal in renown in non-francophone Europe (except for the British Isles) and also equal in Latin America IMO.
Say whaaaaa??? The Chicago MSA and CSA are both FAR larger in area than either Toronto's CMA or the GTA.
The Chicago CSA is 10,856 sq. miles!
Only the Greater Golden Horseshoe is comparable in size of area to The Chicago CSA.
A huge chunk of the Chicago metro area is farmland...I don't know the exact statistics, but an armchair guess is 50% of the metro area is rural and has maybe 5 percent of the population.
example Newton and Jasper counties in Northwest Indiana are 1000 square miles with just 50,000 people , .5% of the metro population compromising 10% of the land. Other huge swaths of the metro are similarly rural and are lumped into the metro area.
And Red John, your concern for Chicago's well-being and global reputation is considerate...but considering there is record tourism levels, hotels now sprouting like weeds, new tower proposals rolling in every few days including3 supertalls, dozens of companies moving their headquarters to the core booming neighborhoods on all sides of the city, an exploding tech scene, Northerly Island Park, the 606, the Lucas Museum, the Riverwalk...and just a few weeks ago, the announcement of a new feather in Chicago's Cultural Cap, the Museum of American Literature is on its way. Maybe you should expend your noble efforts in a city more in need of your benevolence.
Racine is not a Chicago suburb. It's included in Milwaukee's CSA.
Racine is 77mi and 1h23m from Chicago. Fort Erie (in the Golden Horseshoe) is 104 miles and 1h37m by car from Toronto. Yet nobody here complains when Fort Erie is added to Toronto's grossly overexaggerated population size. So what's good for the geese is good for the gander. If you want to give Toronto the area around Niagara Falls, then you have to be willing to consider Racine as an extended part of Chicagoland.
Fun fact time! Toronto to Fort Erie, ON (both in the "Golden Horseshoe") is LONGER in distance than Chicago to Milwaukee! Chicago to Milwaukee is 92 miles and takes 1h28 minutes, 8 miles closer (and 9 minutes closer) to Chicago than Fort Erie is to Toronto. So, again, if you want me to shrink Chicago, then I think it's only fair that the Golden Horseshoe be shrunk as well.
Wow, that's great insight. Is this verified to be true? I had no idea that Toronto incorporated such a geographically vast area when compiling it CSA (MSA?). That's a *huge* area (2,750sqmi). If Chicago were to broaden its CSA to such a vast size, it would probably add another 2-3 million in population, right?
Yeah, Chicago at 2,750sqmi would add Lake's 0.7 million + Northern Will's 0.6 million + Kane's 0.5 million + Kenosha's 0.2 million. So it would add 2 million exactly. So it would have 8 million + in the same land area as Toronto has 6 million.
Yeah, Chicago at 2,750sqmi would add Lake's 0.7 million + Northern Will's 0.6 million + Kane's 0.5 million + Kenosha's 0.2 million. So it would add 2 million exactly. So it would have 8 million + in the same land area as Toronto has 6 million.
Chicago has 9.2 million people living in 2647 square miles. That's more than the entire Golden Horseshoe in a fraction of the land area.
Chicago has 9.2 million people living in 2647 square miles. That's more than the entire Golden Horseshoe in a fraction of the land area.
The GTA has 6.5 million people in 883 sq miles of urbanized area (link below).. The majority of the 2647 square miles people are throwing around is not urban and are green areas/marshland. I could easily eliminate marshland north of Vaughn and supplement Hamilton to the west (which is contiguous to the GTA but not officially a part of it because Canada and the U.S don't measure metro areas in the same manner) and add another half million for example. We can all get into the picking and choosing of populated parts of large areas to use advantageously one way or the other to skew results...
If current growth rates continue for the GTA (which most likely will be the case due to Canada's immigration policy and GTA being by far the immigration magnet city of a country to the tune of 40 percent of its 250K immigants per year), by 2041 it will have 9.4 million in 883 sq miles.. In the Canamerican sense, that is incredibly dense and compact! I think even now Chicago may be hard pressed to fit 6.5 million people into 883 sq miles anywhere - even at its most dense and urban.
In terms of urban areas right now (not CSA/Golden horseshoe regional type comparisons, just urban areas between the two) Chicago has 9.2 million in 2647 sq miles of urban area with a population density of 3400 ppsm vs the GTA's 6.5 million in 883 sq miles with 7300 ppsm.
Moderator cut: link removed, linking to competitor sites is not allowed
I'd say that overall around the world, Toronto and Montreal are pretty equal in terms of renown as Canada's primate city. Which is saying something when you consider that Toronto's metro has 2 million more people than Montreal, making it close to 50% larger.
But it varies greatly according to where you are in the world. Anywhere in the world where people speak French, Montreal is THE Canadian city. So this covers off a chunk of Europe and of course much of Africa and the Middle East. On the other hand, you'd find Montreal is very much off the radar (or at least, no more on it and maybe less than Calgary or Ottawa) in countries like India and China. Both of which have a huge chunk of the world's population.
Toronto and Montreal are probably fairly equal in renown in non-francophone Europe (except for the British Isles) and also equal in Latin America IMO.
The metro population of Toronto and Montreal is a bit weird if you go by CMA's but the Greater Montreal area is about 4.2 million. The Greater Toronto Area is at 6.5 million but this doesn't include Hamilton and other cities that are contiguous to the GTA. Its pretty safe to say Toronto anchors a region with double the population of Montreal with the gap widening in Toronto's favour given growth rates over the last few years coupled with projections.
As for International renown, its really difficult to capture that as its anecdotal.. Montreal historically was the more important city and for far longere. With that said, Toronto now is obviously the largest economic city in the country by far, brings in substantially more immigrants and has an airport that is much more internationally connected and far busier than Montreal.. Toronto has links to more cities in Europe, Asia and South America than Montreal.. The only continent Montreal would compete with in terms of air connectivity is Africa. In addition, Toronto receives substantially more International visitors than Montreal so on paper Toronto checks off premier much more potently than Montreal.
Race and ethnicity is not the same thing. Two people can be of the same race but be of different Ethnicities.
Toronto is more ethnically diverse than Chicago, while Chicago is more racially balance.
Toronto is more ethnically diverse and of various different ethnicities there are stronger numbers and not as generationally assimilated as in Chicago - they are more in your face in terms of expressing their culture ..
This is a celebration in Chicago when Spain wins the world cup
Even though Chicago has a larger African Canamerican population than Toronto - because Toronto has a heavy number of more recent Caribbean Blacks - this is a celebration of black multiculturalism in Toronto....
The metro population of Toronto and Montreal is a bit weird if you go by CMA's but the Greater Montreal area is about 4.2 million. The Greater Toronto Area is at 6.5 million but this doesn't include Hamilton and other cities that are contiguous to the GTA. Its pretty safe to say Toronto anchors a region with double the population of Montreal with the gap widening in Toronto's favour given growth rates over the last few years coupled with projections.
As for International renown, its really difficult to capture that as its anecdotal.. Montreal historically was the more important city and for far longere. With that said, Toronto now is obviously the largest economic city in the country by far, brings in substantially more immigrants and has an airport that is much more internationally connected and far busier than Montreal.. Toronto has links to more cities in Europe, Asia and South America than Montreal.. The only continent Montreal would compete with in terms of air connectivity is Africa. In addition, Toronto receives substantially more International visitors than Montreal so on paper Toronto checks off premier much more potently than Montreal.
Agreed. That's why it's surprising, when you travel around many parts of the world (not all of them of course), to find how close Montreal still is to Toronto in many people's minds. Part of it is past glory as you say, but there are other factors as well that are more superficial: the 1976 Olympics (both past glory and superficial), the F1 Grand Prix race, the sharing of the Canadian Open tennis tournament with Toronto, perhaps a clearer global image as an outlier ''French'' (sic) city in North America, etc.
Last edited by Acajack; 11-23-2015 at 04:54 AM..
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