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Is this a joke? What part of Atlanta are you referring to? Downtown Atlanta and Midtown? Aren’t they more urban than parts of every city in America including NYC? Have you been to Queens or Staten Island?
Keep in mind that one of the biggest differences between the big urban cities like DC, NYC, SF, Boston etc. is pedestrian traffic even in our single family home neighborhoods. An example of this can be found in the comparison of the intersection of Minnesota Avenue NE and Benning Road NE in DC compared to anywhere in Midtown Atlanta. That intersection in DC isn’t close to as urban as Midtown or downtown Atlanta, but I bet it has a higher 24-hour pedestrian count than anywhere in Midtown Atlanta.
DC and obliviously NYC are more urban than Atlanta
But no areas areas like Tech Square, and even Atlantic station is consider Midtown ATL have pedestrians. And areas like around centennial Park Downtown have a lot. That specific block you mention in DC would not.
I don't base urbanity on density at all.. but appearance how human scale it is. because cities can loose density due to white flight and neglect but still structurally urban. And land use play a factor like a city having parks, Industrial/logistical areas in city that screw density, At the same time a place can have super wide roads with little street scape but high rises and yall would call it urban because it's population is dense. This why just looking a density is flawed.
Most American cities are not row house cities only a few cities on the east coast are, Most American cities including Chicago, Cleveland and etc land cover is dominate by densely develop SFH. So some of yall be making the standard so high it contradicts most Americans.
Suburban to me when I start to seeing wide roads, a lot drive ways and garages, Medium and bigger yards.
Chicago
Because cities have different architecture I ignore architecture, unless it's ranch style home which those come with yards anyways
New Orleans
But most cities including most sunbelt cities have a few urban neighborhoods.
What's wrong with considering detached SFH neighborhoods to be less urban than ones with rowhomes and apartment buildings?
Austin is the poster child for giant suburb. How do i know? i lived there many years and watched it grow to ridiculous suburban proportions with no rapid transit system. it's a college town a tech center and quasi traffic nightmare.
Chicago is a big city with a big core..... and absolutely massive suburb.
Boston is a smaller city with big city density and medium sized suburb.
DC and obliviously NYC are more urban than Atlanta
But no areas areas like Tech Square, and even Atlantic station is consider Midtown ATL have pedestrians. And areas like around centennial Park Downtown have a lot. That specific block you mention in DC would not.
Atlanta is oblivious behind DC but notion that "midtown" doesn't have pedestrians is a lie.
Couple things...
I didn’t say Midtown didn’t have pedestrian activity. I said the area mentioned in DC has more pedestrian traffic even though it’s not as urban as Midtown or downtown ATL.
Have you been to the Minnesota Avenue and Benning Rd NE intersection? Atlantic Station does not have a higher pedestrian count than that intersection in DC. Atlantic Station lacks foot traffic during the weekday. This isn’t just about weekends. We are talking about 24-hour foot traffic, 7-days per week. Atlantic Station functions like an outdoor mall so pedestrian traffic is only high when mall traffic would normally be high. It’s not a neighborhood with ten’s of thousands of people. When the stores close, the pedestrian traffic dies.
I didn’t say Midtown didn’t have pedestrian activity. I said the area mentioned in DC has more pedestrian traffic even though it’s not as urban as Midtown or downtown ATL.
Have you been to the Minnesota Avenue and Benning Rd NE intersection? Atlantic Station does not have a higher pedestrian count than that intersection in DC. Atlantic Station lacks foot traffic during the weekday. This isn’t just about weekends. We are talking about 24-hour foot traffic, 7-days per week. Atlantic Station functions like an outdoor mall so pedestrian traffic is only high when mall traffic would normally be high. It’s not a neighborhood with ten’s of thousands of people. When the stores close, the pedestrian traffic dies.
Besides the lack of parking and difficult navigation throughout the area, this is what bothers me about Atlantic Station. The area is more of a Marietta rather than a second Midtown.
Besides the lack of parking and difficult navigation throughout the area, this is what bothers me about Atlantic Station. The area is more of a Marietta rather than a second Midtown.
More of a Marietta? That's a head-scratcher.
And there's plenty of parking with most of it underground. It wasn't meant to be extensively navigated by car.
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Main qualification is whether the city in question has any significant old school, small-scale urban neighborhoods outside the downtown area, with a commercial strip, dense housing, and at least a decent level of activity on foot. I do not count Uptown Dallas as such a neighborhood-I know there will probably be some questions as to why-because it is mostly filled in with large scale development and is essentially an extension of downtown.
Clearly you've never been to Brick Town in Oklahoma City.
Outside of downtown, Oklahoma City is annoyingly suburban, but the Brick Town area, and downtown is actually quite nice.
Clearly you've never been to Brick Town in Oklahoma City.
Outside of downtown, Oklahoma City is annoyingly suburban, but the Brick Town area, and downtown is actually quite nice.
Yeah he didn't really explore Dallas either. I'm curious to know where all of these "old school, small scale urban neighborhoods" that are supposedly found in Houston and San Antonio, but not in Dallas. Sounds like he made a quick trip to Uptown and that's it.
Clearly you've never been to Brick Town in Oklahoma City.
Outside of downtown, Oklahoma City is annoyingly suburban, but the Brick Town area, and downtown is actually quite nice.
Those don't seem "significant" to me. Based one using street view to look at them they are nice and have some good bones that are being improved on, but downtown looks very much like a large single use office district with a little bit of retail and cultural uses sprinkled throughout and Brick City while it had better bones and seemed to have more mixed use also had a lot off empty lots and parking lots still although those seem to be filling in. They might be nice, but Brick City doesn't seem large or consistent enough at this point to call significant and downtown is still a large area that seems to be a single use office area without much vibrancy outside of when workers are there which doesn't totally discount it, but I think it does reduce the areas significance if the majority of people that see that area are only there for business for one reason or another.
Those don't seem "significant" to me. Based one using street view to look at them they are nice and have some good bones that are being improved on, but downtown looks very much like a large single use office district with a little bit of retail and cultural uses sprinkled throughout and Brick City while it had better bones and seemed to have more mixed use also had a lot off empty lots and parking lots still although those seem to be filling in. They might be nice, but Brick City doesn't seem large or consistent enough at this point to call significant and downtown is still a large area that seems to be a single use office area without much vibrancy outside of when workers are there which doesn't totally discount it, but I think it does reduce the areas significance if the majority of people that see that area are only there for business for one reason or another.
You're not wrong. Bricktown alone isn't anything to write home about by itself. But it is growing rapidly. An area that is larger than the current district has just been cleared and will see development start soon. We should see Bricktown essentially double in size in the next 10-15 years, all while filling in the surface lots with new developments (many currently in the works). The canal will likely also be extended into the new development. On the south side of downtown an 80 acre park is being developed between the central business district, a new $300 million convention center and Omni hotel, and a massive plot of land that has been purchased and is set to be developed as Strawberry Fields, a residential neighborhood with a ton of mix use buildings. Within the CBD the First National tower is being redeveloped into residential. Adding hundreds of new resident to the center of downtown. This will be a massive spark in adding vibrancy and development where there hasn't been much due to the majority of traffic being 8-5 M-F. West of downtown, areas of Film Row and West Village are building new apartments, condos, restaurants, music venues, and entertainment options daily. Anything on the 2 blocks between these developments and downtown will be developed within the decade to connect them seamlessly. North of downtown is seeing massive growth as well with 2 new HQ office buildings planned. All of this connected by a new 6 mile streetcar system.
All that to say, OKC has momentum and is developing rapidly. In the next 10-15 years OKC will have a fairly substantial urban core. With a handful of vibrant, walkable districts scattered further out (Paseo/23rd, Plaza, etc.) hopefully connected by rail by then.
OKC has too much space within city limits for it to ever be fully urban. But the core of the city will be very urban with miles of walkable attractions and easily accessible street cars to connect everything.
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