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I've been to San Francisco.
It's downtown doesn't compare to Chicago.
Please don't put Chicago on the same tier.
Agreed. DTSF is not at all comparable to DT Chicago.
There are things about Manhattan that remind me of downtown Chicago and there are things that are quite different. It's kind of difficult to compare an entire island to ~2 sq. miles.
I've been to San Francisco.
It's downtown doesn't compare to Chicago.
Please don't put Chicago on the same tier.
I think the Loop is superior to the Financial District in San Francisco as well, really the greater downtown area of Chicago is a bit ahead of San Francisco's and that's largely attributed to the more versatile nature of the Loop and its surroundings. You're simply just able to do more and plentiful things around there than the comparable area in San Francisco. For example there is no beach to be accessing in the surroundings of Downtown San Francisco like there is with Downtown Chicago. You have to move away from the financial district to an area like North Beach or elsewhere in the city of San Francisco to get the same urban scene and even then, it doesn't replicate the Loop's hub-and-spoke style set up where all the city's best attributes radiate from the Loop, things like the museums, libraries, performing arts, amphitheaters, city parks, so on and so forth.
So the general area surrounding Downtown Chicago is likely more live, work, and play. That being said, the Loop compares more favorable with Downtown Toronto or Financial District San Francisco than Lower Manhattan or Midtown Manhattan. Both of those are just really huge, I think it is unfair to compare anywhere in North America to them just due to the basics. That being said, Fitzrovian was right, personal preference and what a person can adjust to is an individual attribute and open to wider and more subjective interpretation.
Last edited by Trafalgar Law; 05-04-2017 at 08:41 AM..
Im gonna follow your lead and post some of my own personal street pics of Manhattan that have just been sitting on my camera roll for a while.. These are just some cell phone pics taken be me. All are recent. (Past few months)
I've taken up cell phone city photography as a hobby lately and I've just been waiting for an excuse/time & place to share some of these
I absolutely love Chicago and I work in NYC and what Fitzrovian says is spot on. Chicago is a BIG city but NYC is a beast, it's three times the size in population and not many places in the world can say they can match 15-20 miles of solid concrete and humanity so it's not an insult on any level.
I understand size, length and girth matter and solid. Just concrete without allowances for green is interesting in what humanity can build and tolerate.
But just like we are not meant to merely be meat eaters. But also greens are important to a balanced diet. So too Is a built environment that allows for LIVING AMONG GREEN. I hate winters for cold and snow. But I hate MOST all green turns brown for months on end.
So a better urbanity for me. Clearly accounts for mans need for green-space too. I don't mean just some park a few blocks away at worst. But green among the built environment we live added. I LIKE PLANTLIFE TOO.
Ironically, Chicago PURPOSELY CHOSE Post its Great Fire:
- not to do Tenements-style housing as its peer city then NYC was doing for its masses
- chose residential blocks with housing set-back from streets for green-space
- much preferred homes separated even if merely inches
- even apartment housing of a certain size. Would have interior green-space or a green court-yard from the street.
- created a street-grid where alleys were standard behind housing and standard for every block
BUT DESPITE CHICAGO CHOOSING NOT TO BUILD AS NYC. WE HAVE A COMPARISION OF:
** Manhattan is 33.77 square miles. It is 13.4 miles long and 2.3 miles wide at its widest point.
Chicago Loop is 1.58 sq miles. But its DOWNTOWN CENTRAL BUSINESS DISTRICT (downtown) does MORE THEN DOUBLE THAT.
So if you include ALL MANHATTAN?? IT IS ONLY FAIR TO ADD A LARGER CORE AREA FOR CHICAGO.
It is difficult to define "Downtown Chicago". Everyone seems to have their own definition,
the most narrow of which includes The Loop, Streeterville, and River North; and the most broad of which includes the South Loop, Gold Coast, West Loop, Near South Side, Old Town, River West, Greektown, River East, and Lincoln Park. Here is a breakdown of some of the specific neighborhoods within "Downtown". The Loop (defined as the Chicago River to the north, Lake Michigan to the east, Congress Pkwy to the South, and Canal to the West) is 2.021 square miles. River North (defined as Chicago Avenue to the north, Chicago River to the West and South, and Clark Street to the East) is .446 square miles. Streeterville (defined as Oak Street to the north, Michigan Ave to the west, Lake Michigan to the East, and Ohio to the South) is .317 square miles Gold Coast (defined as Clark to the west, Lake Michigan to the east, North Ave to the north, and Oak St to the south) is .388 square miles. West Loop (Roosevelt to the south, Halsted to the west, Canal to the east, and Lake to the north) is .731 square miles. Overall, the area one may reasonably consider to be "Downtown" can be as large as 8 square miles.
*** But IT IS A MORE FAIR COMPARISON if using ALL Manhattan. Especially the ABOVE 8 Sq/mi. used above.
The City of Chicago defines its "Central Business District" below.
Chicago comes across VERY POLISHED and Modern and Refined Grittiness if the Loop.
Its Core has a front Lawn, lake and river front, skyscraper river-canyon and beaches downtown, and Harbors.
Based on the pics of Chicago, it's 3 things that stood our to me that I haven't seen in Manhattan
1. Beach downtown with Chicago skyline in background
2. The El train riding in the middle of downtown Chicago
3. The boat tour in between the skyscrapers in downtown Chicago
Is this anything similar to this in Manhattan?
1. No beaches in Manhattan..... you don't want to swim in those waters
But there are ocean beaches in Brooklyn & Queens. Brooklyn has the better boardwalk IMO with an amusement park and aquarium. But Queens has the better beaches + has waves.
2. There are very few els in Manhattan. But plenty in the other boroughs. Here's a map that shows which tracks of the NYC subway above ground vs underground.
Orange = underground, blue = elevated
Source: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...sition.svg.png
Map is missing new 2nd ave line which is underground.
Another thing this map doesn't show is the el that runs across Staten Island, but that's not important.
The only elevated portions in Manhattan are the 1 train at 125th st, the 1 train again North of 181st st, the JMZ trains in LES getting on/off the Williamsburg bridge, and the BDNQ trains in Chinatown getting on/off the Manhattan bridge.
3. There are boat tours & party boats that circle Manhattan & The Statue of Liberty, + Ellis Island. Manhattan itself is an island so the water doesn't cut through it, it surrounds it. The closest thing to this in NYC would be the East River with Manhattan on one side and the skyscrapers of Downtown Brooklyn and Long Island City Queens on the other side.
1. No beaches in Manhattan..... you don't want to swim in those waters
But there are ocean beaches in Brooklyn & Queens. Brooklyn has the better boardwalk IMO with an amusement park and aquarium. But Queens has the better beaches + has waves.
2. There are very few els in Manhattan. But plenty in the other boroughs. Here's a map that shows which tracks of the NYC subway above ground vs underground.
Orange = underground, blue = elevated
Source: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...sition.svg.png
Map is missing new 2nd ave line which is underground.
Another thing this map doesn't show is the el that runs across Staten Island, but that's not important.
The only elevated portions in Manhattan are the 1 train at 125th st, the 1 train again North of 181st st, the JMZ trains in LES getting on/off the Williamsburg bridge, and the BDNQ trains in Chinatown getting on/off the Manhattan bridge.
3. There are boat tours & party boats that circle Manhattan & The Statue of Liberty, + Ellis Island. Manhattan itself is an island so the water doesn't cut through it, it surrounds it. The closest thing to this in NYC would be the East River with Manhattan on one side and the skyscrapers of Downtown Brooklyn and Long Island City Queens on the other side.
So it sounds like those are the things downtown Chicago can offer over NYC. Not to take anything away from NYC because it's still a great city.
Just never seem a El train outside in between high rise buildings in the downtown area
1. No beaches in Manhattan..... you don't want to swim in those waters
But there are ocean beaches in Brooklyn & Queens. Brooklyn has the better boardwalk IMO with an amusement park and aquarium. But Queens has the better beaches + has waves.
2. There are very few els in Manhattan. But plenty in the other boroughs. Here's a map that shows which tracks of the NYC subway above ground vs underground.
Orange = underground, blue = elevated
Source: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...sition.svg.png
Map is missing new 2nd ave line which is underground.
Another thing this map doesn't show is the el that runs across Staten Island, but that's not important.
The only elevated portions in Manhattan are the 1 train at 125th st, the 1 train again North of 181st st, the JMZ trains in LES getting on/off the Williamsburg bridge, and the BDNQ trains in Chinatown getting on/off the Manhattan bridge.
3. There are boat tours & party boats that circle Manhattan & The Statue of Liberty, + Ellis Island. Manhattan itself is an island so the water doesn't cut through it, it surrounds it. The closest thing to this in NYC would be the East River with Manhattan on one side and the skyscrapers of Downtown Brooklyn and Long Island City Queens on the other side.
Just looked at pics of both Brooklyn and queens beaches and Chicago has the better background and overall looking beach.
So it sounds like those are the things downtown Chicago can offer over NYC. Not to take anything away from NYC because it's still a great city.
Just never seem a El train outside in between high rise buildings in the downtown area
It is kind of rare. I really like els a lot, and I wish Manhattan kept at least one of it's trunk lines elevated. In Chicago I feel like the el trains are closer to the buildings too.
Just looked at pics of both Brooklyn and queens beaches and Chicago has the better background and overall looking beach.
The NYC area beach with the best backdrop of the city is not in NYC, but in NJ. Sandy Hook beach.
But with NY beaches it's for the better that they're located farther away from Manhattan. The waters around Manhattan are very polluted and disgusting. We have a very old combined sewer system in NYC that releases sewage and all other wastewater into the Hudson and the East river every time it rains. So the waters around Manhattan are full of **** and various harmful chemicals and bacteria. It's really bad for the environment. So never do laundry on a rainy day.
Pretty much all older cities around NYCs age or older have combined sewage systems like this. I'm not sure about Chicago though. I'm guessing (hoping) Chicago does not have one of these since everyone seems to be OK with swimming in the lake. You'd have to be insane to want to go swimming in the Hudson or East river though.
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