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Nobody is saying they are all new cities. People are pointing out most of their growth occurred after the advent of the automobile and the trend of sub-urbanization, therefore they never has a reason to have a dense core like Chicago, and Northeastern cities that mostly grew before that period.
Yes, but its not like they have no cores to work with. Columbus is a pretty good example of this, I'd also bet Louisville has plenty of old rail routes not presently utilized.
Some of these places had robust streetcar networks, dismantled them (like everyone else was at the time, not singling them out for that) and then never even really considered building them back up. You're booming right bro? Get that rail you used to have (when you had a smaller population) up and running again!
That doesn't tell the full story, how many structures are under construction in it's downtown areas though? When you ride through I-65 and see cranes in every direction you look, that should tell you there's something special happening in Nashville right now.
But again, cranes don't tell the whole story either. Also for the record, most southern metros are experiencing solid corporate relocations. It seems those are the two metrics boosters play up the most. Probably because those are literally the only two that stand out.
Las Vegas/Nevada did pretty well in these two measures. Then the recession hit and Vegas languished for years.
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Also in raw numbers, Nashville is #5 in white growth from 2013-2018, right behind the DFW juggernaut at 98,172, that's more than 3 times the amount of whites that moved to Atlanta during the same period.
Knowing that Nashville relies on a dying demographic group makes me even less impressed and more uncertain of its future growth prospects. Also, kinda weird to single out white people as if that matters.
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Amazon is building a huge office there as are other companies. Nashville will be the crown Jewel of the south in 5-10 years.
In 5-10 years Nashville might barely make it into the top 30 most populous metros. Not a chance of Nashville emerging into the top 5 in the south within this timeframe. Atlanta, Charlotte, Miami, Houston, Austin, Dallas, and NC triangle are all significantly more important and have experienced more impressive growth. More importantly, they have their own established industries that incubate growth. There's a lot more insecurity in having growth that relies on corporate relocations.
Nashville is barely (and arguably) the crown jewel of Tennessee. Of the entire south? Not a fat chance.
I don't discredit their existence, but being settled during the same time doesn't mean they were destined to grow, function or have the same economic success the others cities had.
Auston or Raleigh were never going to grow in the same way a Boston, SF or Baltimore did because they were land locked by hundreds of miles while the latter were points of immigration on coast that fueled their growths. It didn't help that rail network was still centered in the NE/Great Lakes region at this time.
During this time of American history, city location was everything regarding growth.
Of course, but why make an Austin-Boston comparison?
What was preventing Austin from growing like Dallas or even Phoenix? They're an older city than Dallas. They just woke up one day in 1997 and said, "Ok, lets do this!" ???
But again, cranes don't tell the whole story either. Also for the record, most southern metros are experiencing solid corporate relocations. It seems those are the two metrics boosters play up the most. Probably because those are literally the only two that stand out.
Las Vegas/Nevada did pretty well in these two measures. Then the recession hit and Vegas languished for years.
Knowing that Nashville relies on a dying demographic group makes me even less impressed and more uncertain of its future growth prospects. Also, kinda weird to single out white people as if that matters.
In 5-10 years Nashville might barely make it into the top 30 most populous metros. Not a chance of Nashville emerging into the top 5 in the south within this timeframe. Atlanta, Charlotte, Miami, Houston, Austin, Dallas, and NC triangle are all significantly more important and have experienced more impressive growth. More importantly, they have their own established industries that incubate growth. There's a lot more insecurity in having growth that relies on corporate relocations.
Nashville is barely (and arguably) the crown jewel of Tennessee. Of the entire south? Not a fat chance.
I wasn't including Texas I'm talking South as more so Southeast and excluding Miami because that's a completely different culture and vibe down there.
So are we discussing URBANITY here? Or simply cranes and highrises "downtown?"
I believe I said "outward facing urban metropolis" or something like that in my OP, which I like.
While Phoenix, Atlanta, Dallas, etc. will fail SOME peoples test of urbanity, no one can dispute that they are world-facing metropolises.
We don't want arguments over who has narrower streets or where you can get that slice of pizza at 3:00 a.m., which is where typical urbanity threads end up.
Building a high rise over 800 feet downtown is a big deal in America, even if it happens in the middle of a suburban minded metro. It's a good example of walking the walk instead of talking the talk.
I wasn't including Texas I'm talking South as more so Southeast and excluding Miami because that's a completely different culture and vibe down there.
Eh...? Even excluding Miami and Texas... Atlanta isn't falling off its platform anytime soon, and Charlotte is also still growing, as are two other large metros in FL, Orlando and Tampa, which are both already bigger and more economically powerful, and growing at similar, if not, faster rates. And in terms of urbanity itself, it is severely behind Atlanta, and probably right in line with Orlando and Tampa (special nod to Orlando for at least having a commuter rail.)
I definitely tip my hat at the recent surges that have occurred there of late, but I sometimes feel like this board gets carried away with hype for certain cities. I remember a few years ago it was Asheville.
It depends on the competition from other places offering the same thing. These are solid places but not going anywhere soon. "Legitimately urban" is a self-defined standard.
Nashville: already a world renown niche city. It is fine as it is. A state capital.
Austin: fast becoming a cliche city. It is past its prime, or soon will be. Being a state capital and university town will likely keep it viable and carry it forward as it is. It has a music festival.
Columbus: can't really judge but it has a way to go. State capital, again. Not the Ohio city people think of.
Raleigh: seriously? What happened to Charlotte? Yet another state capital.
Jacksonville: hamstrung by its two largest neighbors (Miami and Atlanta). Only coastal city on the list and the sea level is rising.
Indianapolis: Gee, another state capital...but what would make me move there? Competes with Chicago.
Louisville: i don't think I've been there since the bridge failure. Did they get that fixed?
Five of the seven are state capitals. State capitals have an economic crutch, as do major university towns. The local economy doesn't experience the usual slumps other places feel so they sometimes appear to be up and coming places.
edit... Building a 800 foot high-rise is impressive if it is occupied. If half empty it tells a different story.
I wasn't including Texas I'm talking South as more so Southeast and excluding Miami because that's a completely different culture and vibe down there.
So Nashville is the crown jewel of six states? Of the cherrypicked selection of major metros below?
Atlanta (#9)
Charlotte (#23)
Nashville (#36)
Virginia Beach (#37)
Raleigh (#42)
Memphis (#43)
Richmond (#44)
New Orleans (#46)
Birmingham (#49)
Greenville (#61)
I'm somehow even more unimpressed by Nashville after this exchange and further convinced that Atlanta is the crown jewel of the south.
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