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As noted above, Richmond and Norfolk are too far apart (nearly 100 miles) to ever form a single consolidated metropolitan area. Richmond and Petersburg (23 miles south) have largely become a single urbanized area, but the distance between Petersburg and Norfolk (75 miles) includes several very sparsely populated counties.
What does seem to be emerging though is an extension of the Boston-Washington "Megalopolis" southward to Richmond along the I-95 Corridor. It has already reached Fredericksburg (50 miles south of D.C.) with nearly 2,000,000 people living in the four counties located along that stretch of 1-95. VRE commuter rail has for years now connected Fredericksburg with downtown Washington, D.C.
Although Richmond is about 60-miles south of Fredericksburg, the five counties along this stretch of I-95 are growing rapidly with a current total population in excess of 600,000. As I understand it, the state of Virginia is working with AMTRAK to increase rail service between Richmond and Washington, They need to do something as I-95 has been a traffic nightmare for many years now.
Last edited by VTinPhilly; 01-28-2020 at 09:51 PM..
Raleigh and Durham/Chapel Hill are two separate MSAs by a mere ridiculous technicality. The Triangle already functions as one metro area in every way, shape, and form and is thus the OBVIOUS choice of this poll. RTP (the largest employment center for the whole region) being located mostly in Durham County means that more people from Wake County (where Raleigh is; the largest county in the region by far) commute TO Durham County than vice versa. That's the reason they separated the two MSAs in 2003 even though the two cities have only grown closer and closer together in every conceivable way since then. Very dumb.
There are portions of the city of Raleigh that lie in Durham County and portions of the city of Durham that lie in Wake County; meaning there are residents of the city of Raleigh who *technically* don't live in the "Raleigh MSA" and vice versa for Durham. Extra dumb.
Raleigh and Durham/Chapel Hill are two separate MSAs by a mere ridiculous technicality. The Triangle already functions as one metro area in every way, shape, and form and is thus the OBVIOUS choice of this poll. RTP (the largest employment center for the whole region) being located mostly in Durham County means that more people from Wake County (where Raleigh is; the largest county in the region by far) commute TO Durham County than vice versa. That's the reason they separated the two MSAs in 2003 even though the two cities have only grown closer and closer together in every conceivable way since then. Very dumb.
There are portions of the city of Raleigh that lie in Durham County and portions of the city of Durham that lie in Wake County; meaning there are residents of the city of Raleigh who *technically* don't live in the "Raleigh MSA" and vice versa for Durham. Extra dumb.
I totally agree, and it is ridiculous. The City Limits of Durham and Raleigh actually touch each other. It's been a cohesive Metro for a long time, including Orange County and Chapel Hill.
Raleigh and Durham/Chapel Hill are two separate MSAs by a mere ridiculous technicality. The Triangle already functions as one metro area in every way, shape, and form and is thus the OBVIOUS choice of this poll. RTP (the largest employment center for the whole region) being located mostly in Durham County means that more people from Wake County (where Raleigh is; the largest county in the region by far) commute TO Durham County than vice versa. That's the reason they separated the two MSAs in 2003 even though the two cities have only grown closer and closer together in every conceivable way since then. Very dumb.
There are portions of the city of Raleigh that lie in Durham County and portions of the city of Durham that lie in Wake County; meaning there are residents of the city of Raleigh who *technically* don't live in the "Raleigh MSA" and vice versa for Durham. Extra dumb.
THIS.
Especially your second point. It's straight up laughable that there are two different MSA's within the Triangle. The two major cities touch each other in many areas and even bleed into each others counties, as you stated. I literally drive back and forth between both metro's several times a day. I work in RTP (Durham) and can drive down the road to get lunch in Brier Creek (Raleigh) in about 5 minutes.
Raleigh and Durham/Chapel Hill are two separate MSAs by a mere ridiculous technicality. The Triangle already functions as one metro area in every way, shape, and form and is thus the OBVIOUS choice of this poll. RTP (the largest employment center for the whole region) being located mostly in Durham County means that more people from Wake County (where Raleigh is; the largest county in the region by far) commute TO Durham County than vice versa. That's the reason they separated the two MSAs in 2003 even though the two cities have only grown closer and closer together in every conceivable way since then. Very dumb.
There are portions of the city of Raleigh that lie in Durham County and portions of the city of Durham that lie in Wake County; meaning there are residents of the city of Raleigh who *technically* don't live in the "Raleigh MSA" and vice versa for Durham. Extra dumb.
The Triangle is a very interesting case overall as it is probably the only area in the country that became a single metro "artificially," i.e. the creation of RTP. I think if RTP was built in a mixed-use fashion from the beginning, with a residential population in place, it may not have gotten split into two separate MSAs.
At any rate, it's very difficult to come up with a standard set of criteria to delineate metropolitan areas across the board that will reflect the reality on the ground for each and every one of them. The OMB gets a lot of flack but I think they do the best they can do as time goes on and traditional jurisdictional lines get blurred, rural areas become exurbs, commutes get longer, etc.
The Triangle is a very interesting case overall as it is probably the only area in the country that became a single metro "artificially," i.e. the creation of RTP. I think if RTP was built in a mixed-use fashion from the beginning, with a residential population in place, it may not have gotten split into two separate MSAs.
At any rate, it's very difficult to come up with a standard set of criteria to delineate metropolitan areas across the board that will reflect the reality on the ground for each and every one of them. The OMB gets a lot of flack but I think they do the best they can do as time goes on and traditional jurisdictional lines get blurred, rural areas become exurbs, commutes get longer, etc.
I don't think that's even completely true. The "Research Triangle" of "Research Triangle Park" existed and was part of regional nomenclature long before the park was built. NC State, Duke, and UNC (ergo; Raleigh, Durham, and Chapel Hill) formed the "Research Triangle" for decades before the construction of RTP. The park was built where it is so that it would be central to and continue to grow the already existent regional relationship between the universities and their respective cities.
Might as well have the "Minneapolis MSA" and "St Paul MSA".
I don't think that's even completely true. The "Research Triangle" of "Research Triangle Park" existed and was part of regional nomenclature long before the park was built. NC State, Duke, and UNC (ergo; Raleigh, Durham, and Chapel Hill) formed the "Research Triangle" for decades before the construction of RTP. The park was built where it is so that it would be central to and continue to grow the already existent regional relationship between the universities and their respective cities.
Before the creation of RTP, Raleigh and Durham were considered separate cities with their own spheres of influence and identities, at least according to what I've read, and it wasn't until the creation of RTP that it was considered a singular region. There's no doubt that the park has accelerated the growth of both cities toward each other but in the absence of the actual park, it's hard to say to what extent that would have happened and how the region's image would've been affected. The closest example is the Triad I suppose but one thing that forged a regional identity among those cities, perhaps above all others, is the strength of the NC's traditional industries in the region as all of them were prominent in such which is why it used to be the largest among NC's metros.
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Might as well have the "Minneapolis MSA" and "St Paul MSA".
Nah. For all practical intents and purposes, Minneapolis and St. Paul are the same city split by a municipal border.
Before the creation of RTP, Raleigh and Durham were considered separate cities with their own spheres of influence and identities, at least according to what I've read, and it wasn't until the creation of RTP that it was considered a singular region. There's no doubt that the park has accelerated the growth of both cities toward each other but in the absence of the actual park, it's hard to say to what extent that would have happened and how the region's image would've been affected. The closest example is the Triad I suppose but one thing that forged a regional identity among those cities, perhaps above all others, is the strength of the NC's traditional industries in the region as all of them were prominent in such which is why it used to be the largest among NC's metros.
Nah. For all practical intents and purposes, Minneapolis and St. Paul are the same city split by a municipal border.
Lived in both for years, Triad and Triangle are two different animals. Raleigh and Durham are definitely connected at the hip regardless of the existence of RTP. Fact is, it exists and why they are not considered to part of the same MSA is pure BS.
Lived in both for years, Triad and Triangle are two different animals. Raleigh and Durham are definitely connected at the hip regardless of the existence of RTP. Fact is, it exists and why they are not considered to part of the same MSA is pure BS.
Can you really say that Raleigh and Durham are connected at the hip regardless of the existence of RTP? If RTP never existed I think they would be another Greensboro and Winston-Salem where there is a relationship but they aren't exactly connected at the hip. In the absence of the park, I don't see what would drive the growth of Raleigh and Durham towards each other. Historically they weren't all that similar economically as Raleigh didn't have much of a foothold in traditional industries like textiles and tobacco which is what made Durham historically prominent (like the other Piedmont cities).
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