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Oh there is a whole lot more night life in the Springs compared to Pueblo. But sometimes it isn't all good.
Quote:
Originally Posted by C2H (ComingtoHouston)
Back before they added all the bars and pubs in downtown Colorado Springs which goes back about 10 years ago, i would agree with you. I was just downtown Springs in August and there is quite a bit of nightlife going on. I think it definitely rivals Pueblos now. The Springs even has a shuttle service now which resembles what Denver has in their downtown. I think you need to visit the Springs again.
I will attest though, that downtown Springs was domniated by only caucasions for the most part with a few sprinkles of chocolate. Still a very white downtown though.
I actually go to the Springs a lot as you guys have a lot of great restaurants and I have friends who live there. In fact there have been many times I am telling residents of the Springs how to get somewhere, I always find that amuzing.
Perhaps I did not make my self clear I agree that the Springs does rival Pueblo's downtown but with Metro Pueblo being 150,000 and the Metro Springs being close to 600,000 the Springs downtown should be so big that I could not even make a case that Pueblo's downtown rivals it, in fact they should be saying the Springs downtown rivals Denver's and it is no where near that. Imagine what Pueblo's downtown will be once we hit 600,000 people since our focus is on our downtown, that was my point that I tired to make.
So I am just not being a negative person here is what could be done and how I think it would help. The Springs can develop urban renewal areas in downtown. That would make it easier for developers to come in and redevelop downtown. The extra money the city would bring in because of the new development would be used in downtown to help fix it up even more causing even more development etc. This would take some time but eventually downtown would begin to grow and truly be a gem for the Springs that it should be. Also, Springs residents need to get behind improving their downtown more then they do, having a strong downtown helps everyone out, even the people who live way north in the Briergate area.
Finally eventually it would be nice if you guys moved the power plant, that is more of a eye sore then any high rise would be and give a lot more room for your downtown to expand. Perhaps that could be done when Pueblo gets the Colorado Energy Park as it will generate enough energy for our region and a lot more.
Relative to our size, downtown Colorado Springs is pretty pathetic. Also, the downtown shuttle is going away because of budget cuts.
I think this has been a mostly constructive conversation.
Also, I disagree that New York and Chicago are the only truly urban cities in the United States. If you're looking at it on a global scale, then sure, New York is really the only city that can compete... and there is nothing in the states that can compete with the mega cities in Asia. Having said that, I think any city with progressive, forward thinking policy, that focuses on developing it's downtown and avoiding sprawling suburbs, any city that invests in mass transit, arts and culture, and all things urban... can make a perfectly nice home for a "true urbanist." The thing is... Colorado Springs isn't any of those things right now, and may never be. Denver isn't half bad. The city of Denver itself, not the surrounding suburbs... those are a bigger mess than most Denverites are willing to acknowledge.
I guess I fall somewhere in the middle. I think people who want to live in the suburbs should have that right, but I don't think those people should be allowed to have a say in what happens downtown, because, for the most part they don't ever bother to go downtown. I don't think the north end suburbanites should be allowed to dictate how people downtown live, and right now they do, because they have the political power, and there are steps the city could take to make downtown more independent, and to funnel some resources downtown, and it choses not to... and this is why I get so angry. There are, of course, bigger issues, i.e. your average urbanist is likely to shy away from Colorado Springs because of the stigma surrounding FOTF and New Life and that whole culture. In the end, I don't really aim to to keep Briargate people from being Briargate people, I just want the opportunity to stay in my home town, and live the urban life that I want to lead.
Relative to our size, downtown Colorado Springs is pretty pathetic. Also, the downtown shuttle is going away because of budget cuts.
I think this has been a mostly constructive conversation.
Also, I disagree that New York and Chicago are the only truly urban cities in the United States. If you're looking at it on a global scale, then sure, New York is really the only city that can compete... and there is nothing in the states that can compete with the mega cities in Asia. Having said that, I think any city with progressive, forward thinking policy, that focuses on developing it's downtown and avoiding sprawling suburbs, any city that invests in mass transit, arts and culture, and all things urban... can make a perfectly nice home for a "true urbanist." The thing is... Colorado Springs isn't any of those things right now, and may never be.
Good points I give you that, I was looking at a world scale and what cities could even compete on that level. I still think that Chicago could but perhaps I am biased because my uncle use to live in Bois town there and I would always visit.
Perhaps I am more of a urbanist then you give me credit for!
"I guess I fall somewhere in the middle. I think people who want to live in the suburbs should have that right, but I don't think those people should be allowed to have a say in what happens downtown, because, for the most part they don't ever bother to go downtown. I don't think the north end suburbanites should be allowed to dictate how people downtown live, and right now they do, because they have the political power, and there are steps the city could take to make downtown more independent, and to funnel some resources downtown, and it choses not to... and this is why I get so angry. There are, of course, bigger issues, i.e. your average urbanist is likely to shy away from Colorado Springs because of the stigma surrounding FOTF and New Life and that whole culture. In the end, I don't really aim to to keep Briargate people from being Briargate people, I just want the opportunity to stay in my home town, and live the urban life that I want to lead."
I agree with this but the Springs is in a unique position that the city is so big, in fact even when Pueblo adds Pueblo Springs the city of Colorado Springs will still be more then double the land area of Pueblo. That makes the people who live far out feel less connected to downtown then the people will in Pueblo Springs to downtown Pueblo. In fact its actually a shorter drive for people in Fountain to drive to Pueblo's downtown then the Springs. For example I can be in downtown Pueblo is less then 5 minutes thus I go every day, and I am not unique in Pueblo. However, my cousin lives in the north side of the Springs close to Monument but still in the city, he says he never goes downtown because it is "too far". That is the difference between the two cities downtown and part of the reason Pueblo's downtown rivals the Springs even though we are smaller and why you see more polices in favor of downtown in Pueblo and not in the Springs.
Good points I give you that, I was looking at a world scale and what cities could even compete on that level. I still think that Chicago could but perhaps I am biased because my uncle use to live in Bois town there and I would always visit.
Perhaps I am more of a urbanist then you give me credit for!
Maybe.
For some reason I tend to discount the influence of Chicago. I think it's a regional bias on my part.
I understand the challenge that Downtown Colorado Springs faces, I just don't buy into the idea that they can't be overcome. I look at it this way. A lot of people who live in the developments east of Powers and north of Woodmen do so because they think downtown is liberal, crime ridden, and evil. Great. I don't want these people downtown. Let them stay out on the fringes where they feel comfortable. What I'm saying is, let's develop downtown Colorado Springs into a true urban gem so that we can attract people who *do* like the city life into downtown. We can have the best of both worlds.
The problem is, right now the suburban minded far outnumber the urban minded, so it's hard to get anything done. This is why we need the city to invest in downtown. Downtown is the underdog, and the suburbs are the big bully who refuse to let downtown thrive. We need the city to step in and give downtown a little boost, so that it can grow strong enough to stand on it's own.
On to college football, Air Force is great but they are not like having a college team and...
What? The Air Force Falcons gave Utah a heck of a game and #7 NCAA Division 1 Utah (Add: #2 ranking now by them honks who rate NCAA Division 1 teams) beat #4 NCAA Division 1 Alabama by more points than #1 NCAA Division 1 Florida did! The Falcons lost to a team by a touchdown, a team that went 13-0 and is very much in the running for Number One in the country under the MCS (McGowdog Championship Series)! Utah beat Alabama by 2 touchdowns! That would send the Air Force Falcon's SOS (Strength of Schedule) through the roof!
The Air Force Falcons spanked Colorado State this year and we all know what the Rams can do to the Buffs! I think the Falcons can and should play the Buffs! And the Falcons have been down as of late! Until the Falcons can beat Navy, their season is done in my mind! But they'll get there. They recently retired Fisher DeBerry and with a new coach, they'll rise again. I've been to a couple of Falcon games and it is something! Saw em' lose to Notre Dame, but they've beat Notre Dame too!
Not an NCAA Division 1 team? You need to back away from the keyboard once in a while and think things through. ABC, 123...
Quote:
Originally Posted by iknowftbll
Also, 2 lanes through Pueblo works now because there's only 155,000 in the Pueblo MSA, compared to 610,000 in Colorado Springs. Comparing the 2 cities is like apples to oranges. My point is not that Pueblo's traffic is bad, but that if they don't plan ahead (as you keep suggesting they have done) it will be horrendous if/when this development sets in.
Good point. But do you know what happens if you're northbound on I-25 and there's a wreck between the Central or Abriendo exit and the 1st Street or 13th street exits? There's going to be a traffic jam from just north of Pueblo Blvd all the way up with no where to get off. There's nothing but bridge between Abriendo and the Business 50 exit. That 2 lane winding road fills up in minutes. Luckily, there's a road sign just south of the Pueblo Blvd exit and you'd better be on your A game and take that exit if it says Traffic Ahead. Then you've pretty much got to take the blvd all the way up to 50 and over. Same thing for southbound traffic. Have you ever tested Pueblo's grid system and tried going north to south through town or east to west? It's a weird little merging of 5 distinct neighborhoods. It's kind of neat if you know your way around. After 32 years, I'm still having a hard time!
I think the Springs has one advantage over either Denver or Pueblo: natural aesthetics. Don't discount this, because beauty of the natural environment is the one thing that the out-of-state crowd is looking for when they show up in Colorado. Colorado Springs matches what they "expect" Colorado to look like.
Colorado Springs has a pretty face, and in the dating game of outside money, that's going to lead to some opportunities for first dates. Problem, Colorado Springs seems to have a tough time turning first dates into long-term economic relationships.
Colorado Springs, right now, needs to get investment from outside, and much of what that involves is to convince businesses that Colorado Springs is the right place for them. Most of these businesses are on the east coast and in California. The businesses will like Colorado Springs' low tax environment, but they also will look closely at how the city plans on investing in its future. Colorado Springs needs to convince these investors that it has a plan for growing its built environment into a mature city. Right now, it certainly doesn't give that impression. Colorado Springs also needs to work on its image; and it can start by convincing people that its matured beyond old perceptions of being a citadel of fundamentalism. Business doesn't mind a rightward-leaning city -- in fact, businesses tend to be a bit conservative themselves, but they also want a place where ALL their employees are going to feel right at home. Colorado Springs hasn't done a good job of convincing them that Colorado Springs is live-and-let-live enough to welcome people from all persuasions.
In some ways, if I were to choose to be elected economic development director of a city in Colorado, I'd choose Colorado Springs, because in my mind it seems to have all the ingredients for a really successful city, even if in recent history it's been a bit of an economic underachiever. Pueblo has lately been a bit of an overachiever, so I wouldn't take that job because I doubt I could improve things all that much. With Colorado Springs, there's so many things that COULD be done, it's hard to know where to begin.
I am not saying that the Air Force does not gives us good games as obviously they do. But they do not foster the kind of college atmosphere that a major Universality does as they are a academy and have a different mission. No one calls the Springs a "college city" because they have the Academy, that is just one more example why the Springs is a military city. UCCS is changing that, however, since they will not get a football program that only leaves CSU - Pueblo.
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Still a very white downtown though.
Maybe.
