Skyline competition: Atlanta vs Philadelphia (live, state, better, rates)

[RussianIvanov]

Originally Posted by Newsboy

Have you even BEEN to Atlanta? If so maybe you need to go back. I was there yesterday. It's getting denser AND greener by the day. There are VERY dense high-rise to mid-rise residential/office/retail developments going up on every block from Buckhead to downtown. There are sidewalk cafes and retail stores and bars and people walking along every block -- many coming from or heading to MARTA stations. The fact that all of this activity is surrounded by an urban forest is a plus, not a negative. This is a well-planned city -- one that accomodates new development AND the environment. It's the way modern cities are built today --- not the destructive, ugly urban jungles of NE cities of the past.

Are you seriously suggesting that sunbelt sprawl is less destructive to the environment than the Northeast?

You do not have a lot of trees due to good planning. You have a lot of trees because there is minimal density and it costs a lot money to take them down and most of them are on private property. That is why there are so many trees, the city of Atlanta can not touch trees on private property. Atlanta is well planned yeah right. Look at it your traffic is comparable to NYC and your population is the fraction of the size.

Funny though. "Northeast cities of the past." I do not know what you are trying to take a shot at there but I know one thing and it is that no city in the south will ever touch this Northeast city called New York. The development in Atlanta is hardly working on anything great.

[Forrest Of Deen]

Sprawl is dangerous to our environment. Not that cities ever should be concentrated chemical collection centers, but pollution levels in European cities are much lower than their American counterparts.

At one time London was very polluted and emptied a lot of its waste in the Thames. Since the 1960s and the environmental realisation movement that followed, things have changed a bit. There is a greenbelt surrounding London to contain sprawl and concentrate growth in previously developed areas.

I don't reckon the political situation in Atlanta allows for such measures. There seems to be a strong phobia of any government intervention in that section of the country. Quite unfortunate because the restrictive land use policies in greater London have shown to be enormously beneficial to the environment.

To get back to the topic of this thread, one has seen more skyscrapers rise up in central London due to a land shortage.

Originally Posted by RussianIvanov

Are you seriously suggesting that sunbelt sprawl is less destructive to the environment than the Northeast?

You do not have a lot of trees due to good planning. You have a lot of trees because there is minimal density and it costs a lot money to take them down and most of them are on private property. That is why there are so many trees, the city of Atlanta can not touch trees on private property. Atlanta is well planned yeah right. Look at it your traffic is comparable to NYC and your population is the fraction of the size. Atlanta is hardly doing anything big and great.

Funny though. "Northeast cities of the past." I do not know what you are trying to take a shot at there but I know one thing and it is that no city in the south will ever touch this Northeast city called New York with cutting edge building going up. Atlanta is building bland 3 story apartment complexes and medium height office buildings with a neon light on the top.

[WeSoHood]

Looks wise: Atlanta.. and I like the 3 different skylines.
Density: No contest, Philly.

It depends what you look for in a skyline.. imo

[clean_polo]

I like density thats why I would choose Philadelphia.

[afonega1]

Originally Posted by back2dc

Um, I'm familiar with Atlanta, and I believe that Ivanov's arguments are spot on.

There is no city planning whatsoever, no roadmap for the future other than a bike path called the Beltline and constant infighting between the city of Atlanta and the state of Georgia. Developers kept putting up hi-rises thinking they were creating the "New York of the South" (their term not mine) without any understanding of how real cities function and evolve based on culture not "castles in the sky".

Philly is a real city with dense urban neighborhoods both good and bad. It's definitely not perfect, but it is very REAL. The hi-rises are in areas of the city where real estate is expensive and so developers had no choice but to build UP.

Atlanta's hi-rises are completely unnecessary. They're all for show with no substance. They're certainly not for lack of space. How else would you explain the countless open parking lots, empty parking garages and rundown strip malls in between all those "glamorous" buildings? Atlanta's skyline may look pretty to all the country folk driving by on the highway but then when you get into the city, you're like "this is it?" Where are all the people?

Well guess what. The show is over. The American economy will never go back to the dangerous real estate speculative market of the past few years. Atlanta better come up with a new game plan because you won't see any of its "proposed" skyscrapers coming to fruition in the near future. I can guarantee it. High unemployment, high crime and high vacancies all translate to no new offices, no new condos, and no new hotels.

The sun is setting on the sunbelt.

Why is that you continually lie and stretch the truth?
LIE#1
"There is no city planning whatsoever"
Atlantic Station,Peachtree BLDV Corridor Improvements,Midtown Coalition,Streets of Buckhead where they have literally "torn up"several blocks and redrawn the streets .Atlanta leads the nation in LEED cerified buildings,not to mention of al things;THE BELTLINE.!

The Atlanta BeltLine is a $2.8 billion redevelopment project that will shape the way Atlanta grows throughout the next several decades. The project provides a network of public parks, multi-use trails and transit along a historic 22-mile railroad corridor circling downtown and connecting 45 neighborhoods directly to each other. The Atlanta BeltLine is the most comprehensive economic development effort ever undertaken in the City of Atlanta and among the largest, most wide-ranging urban redevelopment projects currently underway in the United States.

LIE#2
"Developers kept putting up hi-rises thinking they were creating the "New York of the South"
The only reason this did not happen in many Northeastern cities is because of no land!You have to basically tear something down before its rebuilt!Also its not planning that these cities became so dense.Its due to age and natural boundaries.there was no "great foresight" that the people of Atlanta were somehow incapable of figuring out.
You seem to want to make it look like it was just stupid Southern people throwing up "castle" without people to feel them.Yet somehow you neglect the fact that this is not 1860 and this is the United States where there is a vested interest in all our cities to fair well.Why do you think all the big banks and financial institutions were hurt in this crisis?AIG,Fannie Mae,Merryll Lynch were heavily invested in the ENTIRE nation!!

LIE #3
"How else would you explain the countless open parking lots, empty parking garages and rundown strip malls in between all those "glamorous" buildings?"

I know for a fact that in every city (save maybe NYC and Boston) you can find these.Yet you make it sound as if Atlanta is over run with these eyesore.Since you said it back it up.Give me some names of at least 6 of each.That should be easy enough as YOU say.

TRUTH#1
Atlanta is a city that can be more difficult to get around at times.
Yet in the last 10 years Atlanta has kicked into high gear into fixing those issues that make it less desirable.For instance:the Walkability score has gone up drastically over the last 10 years to where now Atlanta is ranked 22 out of 40.Not great but better than when it was ranked close to last 20 years ago.Also the number of walk-able neighbourhood have increased.Largely due to the city core densifying at a faster rate than any other major city in America.The city of ATlanta has added almost over 150,000 people in 20 years!

TRUTH#3
Its one thing to dislike a place but I find it remarkably evil,arrogant,mean-spirited and quite frankly un-patriotic to "revel" and hope that any of Americas cities no longer prosper.Its just unsettling how you could be "glib" about the fact that people,no matter where they choose to live,are suffering due to decisions made by those in power and with money to be greedy.
This whole country is adjusting to the new future.We are Americans that survive in the most precarious times.

That said Atlanta is still growing.Slower thankfully.The city has and become a place where many people love.Even if it is for practical reasons.Many people that have moved from those cities that you(and I) hold in such high esteem.There is no exodus of people heading North like they head for the South.As long as some of these Northern cities continue to be overcrowded and their infrastructure are strained in its ability to get their resources,with striking unions for city services ,people WILL put up with it more in a city that can give them more for their money from whence they came.

What I find remarkable is that YOU don't even live in a city.You live in the SUBURBS of D.C. of ALL PLACES!!!Talk about sprawl!!You seem to contradict what you say you hold in such high regard.

Oh and you snide remarks about "country folks" is very ignorant and elitist of you.This is 2010 grow up and stop pandering to the deuxieme état

[johnatl]

Originally Posted by back2dc

Um, I'm familiar with Atlanta, and I believe that Ivanov's arguments are spot on.

There is no city planning whatsoever, no roadmap for the future other than a bike path called the Beltline and constant infighting between the city of Atlanta and the state of Georgia. Developers kept putting up hi-rises thinking they were creating the "New York of the South" (their term not mine) without any understanding of how real cities function and evolve based on culture not "castles in the sky".

Philly is a real city with dense urban neighborhoods both good and bad. It's definitely not perfect, but it is very REAL. The hi-rises are in areas of the city where real estate is expensive and so developers had no choice but to build UP.

Atlanta's hi-rises are completely unnecessary. They're all for show with no substance. They're certainly not for lack of space. How else would you explain the countless open parking lots, empty parking garages and rundown strip malls in between all those "glamorous" buildings? Atlanta's skyline may look pretty to all the country folk driving by on the highway but then when you get into the city, you're like "this is it?" Where are all the people?

Well guess what. The show is over. The American economy will never go back to the dangerous real estate speculative market of the past few years. Atlanta better come up with a new game plan because you won't see any of its "proposed" skyscrapers coming to fruition in the near future. I can guarantee it. High unemployment, high crime and high vacancies all translate to no new offices, no new condos, and no new hotels.

The sun is setting on the sunbelt.

This is nothing more than your usual, tired wishful thinking.

It must be fun to feel validated occasionally.

[David Alleyne]

I think that I already answered but I'll do it again. ATL looks great in about a couple of different angles but overall, I would give it to Philly because the dense areas there will show something regardless of whichever angle you're viewing from. Newsboy, I'm not trying to come at you wrong but you did trash the Northeast (small stuff but let's be better than that).

[RussianIvanov]

Originally Posted by johnatl

This is nothing more than your usual, tired wishful thinking.

It must be fun to feel validated occasionally.

And you are probably the most useless one here. You offer nothing more than simple substanceless attacks at peoples intelligence never providing any input yourself. You just take a shot and run off, coming back a day or two later to take another shot and then run off.

[afonega1]

Originally Posted by RussianIvanov

Are you seriously suggesting that sunbelt sprawl is less destructive to the environment than the Northeast?

You do not have a lot of trees due to good planning. You have a lot of trees because there is minimal density and it costs a lot money to take them down and most of them are on private property. That is why there are so many trees, the city of Atlanta can not touch trees on private property. Atlanta is well planned yeah right. Look at it your traffic is comparable to NYC and your population is the fraction of the size.

Funny though. "Northeast cities of the past." I do not know what you are trying to take a shot at there but I know one thing and it is that no city in the south will ever touch this Northeast city called New York. The development in Atlanta is hardly working on anything great.

Once again you are incorrect.I have a house in the city.I have a huge tree that I cannot TOUCH until I have a city arborist come inspect the tree and deem it worth of removal or pruned.This is the law in Atlanta.You can go to jail or fined.Trees are continually planted and every develpment has to plant set number of trees within the City limits of Atlanta as predetermined by the type of development.

SO I nor YOU can touch your own trees on private property.

[mas23]

gotta go with philly on this