Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
[/b]
And to say that Bitterwater which is further south than freaking fresno is part of the bay area is wrong. Where did you get that from?
Sorry but Bitterwater is part of this Combined Statistical Area. Didnt say I necessarily want it to be or have ever even heard of that place--but its not up to me or you.
And as far as reasoning. Bitterwater is part of San Benito County, which is now part of the San Jose-Sunnyvale-Santa Clara, CA MSA, which is part of the Bay Area's massive Combined Statistical Area.
Sorry but Bitterwater is part of this Combined Statistical Area. Didnt say I necessarily want it to be or have ever even heard of that place--but its not up to me or you.
And as far as reasoning. Bitterwater is part of San Benito County, which is now part of the San Jose-Sunnyvale-Santa Clara, CA MSA, which is part of the Bay Area's massive Combined Statistical Area.
Yeah you are right, I looked it up and they include 11 counties in the bay area's CSA.
That is your opinion or blind following of how the system supposedly works. Just because that is your belief does not make it correct. Use a little objective discretion for a change, attempt to see the argument from your opponents viewpoint.
One last time.Mercer Countys msa is roughly 375,000. 275,000 of that is in Trentons UA(urban area) Trentons urban area is rightfully placed in Philadelphias sphere of influence as its directly adjoined to Bucks County,Trenton is a mere 15 miles from Philadelphia NE border; and a good 70 miles from Manhattan and 35 miles from nearest NYC MSA point. Despite all of those facts Trentona nd mercer County are now part of NYC cmsa.
Trenton is part of NYCs metro because the state + government employees in Mercer County would automatically receive a higher cost of living allowance compared to Philadlephias.They used the guise of the 15% commuter rate to NY msa to justify the move. In reality there is probably 4 or 5 x as many commuters into Phillys msa from Mercer county NJ. It was a money grab, it has nothing to do with commuter patterns. Mercer County not being part of Philadelphia would be akin to Contra Costa not being part of SF MSA, let alone not even being part of its CMSA.
There is so much more to metro designation than commuter patterns.The red tape, regionalization and political maneuvering is more apparent than you imagine.
Here is an old map prior to Mercer County switching allefgiances to NYC.
5.8M people live in the counties on this map 6.2 M if you rightfully added Mercer( 3,900 sq miiles) Philadlephia imo due to poor regionalization and lobbying efforts get none of the secondary counties which are filled with 4 million people.
Here is a Philadlephia regional map comparable in size to every other metro in the USA. This puts Philadelphia at about 10M people 9,000 sq mi..This is a better representaion of Philadephias TV market and infringes on none of NY or Baltimores sphere of influence.
SF unfortunately is possibly the most misunderstood city in the country. (I'm not sure if that's true, but from my end it has always seemed that way.) People from elsewhere constantly get things wrong when they describe the way things are here, but luckily there are usually just as many outsiders who do have a proper understanding of this city...... There used to be a wealth of great additions to the City that came in the form of transplants, so I have nothing against them coming here. I'm just tired of the elitists/yuppie snobs/hipsters/wannabe activists that flock here now. We are overrun with them and they are the main reason most outsiders have a false understanding of how things really are here, and they've changed the vibe quite a bit.
Nice Post. Before I visited SF I too had a misguided view of the city. But during my time there I realized it is one of the most diverse and vibrant cities in the country and in no way can be simplified as a place only for a select group(s) of people. That being said, I think that when cities start to lose their native population than the city loses a lot of character. This to me is a negative quality of SF. There isn't really a true identity of a native San Franciscan. Philly is stocked with natives and it really adds a lot of character to the city and gives the city an identity, which can be positive or negative. Maybe it is an East Coast thing but you know where someone was raised as soon as they open their mouth (Boston, NY, Philly, Jersey) It kind of adds a bond to the residents of a particular city. However, you definitely need a healthy mix of natives and transplants. I just think that I wouldn't like Philly (or NY or Boston) as much if they were completely full of people from someplace else
Furthermore rainrock,
You forget that if the criteria is loosened just to suit your desire to make Philadelphia bigger-then all the other Metros you think benefit from current guidelines will also grow even more.
After CSA, we have BEA Economic Areas.
New York 23,602,699 Los Angeles 19,495,361 Chicago 10,443,446 San Francisco 9,526,438 Washington DC 9,058,427 Boston 8,215,459 Dallas 7,755,470 Atlanta 7,371,342 Detroit 6,997,479 Philadelphia 6,893,584 Houston 6,511,821 Miami 6,085,767 Minneapolis 5,187,305 Phoenix 4,731,804
Nice Post. Before I visited SF I too had a misguided view of the city. But during my time there I realized it is one of the most diverse and vibrant cities in the country and in no way can be simplified as a place only for a select group(s) of people. That being said, I think that when cities start to lose their native population than the city loses a lot of character. This to me is a negative quality of SF. There isn't really a true identity of a native San Franciscan. Philly is stocked with natives and it really adds a lot of character to the city and gives the city an identity, which can be positive or negative. Maybe it is an East Coast thing but you know where someone was raised as soon as they open their mouth (Boston, NY, Philly, Jersey) It kind of adds a bond to the residents of a particular city. However, you definitely need a healthy mix of natives and transplants. I just think that I wouldn't like Philly (or NY or Boston) as much if they were completely full of people from someplace else
What you say here is very true for the most part. There actually is an identity for native San Franciscans, but its more of a wavelength thing than anything overt. I can often times tell when I'm talking to someone here very early on whether they are originally from here or not, and I'm usually right. I can also usually identify just by making conversation what side of the Bay they are from (West Bay, East Bay, South Bay). I can usually tell the same thing if I see someone on TV. (eg: On the recent Brooklyn season of The Real World I knew right away that Sarah (the annoying hipster) was not a native and I guessed correctly that she was from Orange County. Of course the whole hipster thing was kind of a give away lol.) It has more to do with vibe, sense of humor, personality, etc., and those things aren't going to be easy to pick up on if you're not from here.
But I do agree with what you are saying. There is no true identifiable traits of native San Franciscans that can really be characterized in film the way there is for someone from cities like Boston and NYC, or even Jersey and Philly. The stereotypical San Franciscan is a non-native, and the natives tend to be kind of chill and low key so the only ones that stand out are the eccentric ones. And those get portrayed by characters like Dharma and Monk. If anything, a show few people had a chance to see called "Journeyman" had a closer idea of what native San Franciscans are like, and even then it wasn't exactly spot on.
And I agree that a city tends to lose its character when its transplants outnumber its natives, especially here where its almost by 2-to-1. There is still a pretty strong contingent here though, so hopefully it will maintain some of its old character and evolve into something great again. Right now I feel its at a bit of a low point.
Furthermore rainrock,
You forget that if the criteria is loosened just to suit your desire to make Philadelphia bigger-then all the other Metros you think benefit from current guidelines will also grow even more.
After CSA, we have BEA Economic Areas.
New York 23,602,699 Los Angeles 19,495,361 Chicago 10,443,446 San Francisco 9,526,438 Washington DC 9,058,427 Boston 8,215,459 Dallas 7,755,470 Atlanta 7,371,342 Detroit 6,997,479 Philadelphia 6,893,584 Houston 6,511,821 Miami 6,085,767 Minneapolis 5,187,305 Phoenix 4,731,804
You guys are actually taking the time to look this stuff up? (LOL)
Last time I did it, I was assinged to do in high school, & we didn't have the internet.. (LOL) It was intense & took about 2 months, (LOL) had to go to the school library,neighborhood library, main branch, city hall (In Philly,Trenton,Camdem,Chester,Dover,Reading,etc city hall annex, the federal building, the office of planning &,&,&,....something (LOL)
Technology is amazing, but I still know that we had 9million residents in the Philly metro area back then... where the heck did 2.2million of them go to, Vegas??
You guys are actually taking the time to look this stuff up? (LOL)
Last time I did it, I was assinged to do in high school, & we didn't have the internet.. (LOL) It was intense & took about 2 months, (LOL) had to go to the school library,neighborhood library, main branch, city hall (In Philly,Trenton,Camdem,Chester,Dover,Reading,etc city hall annex, the federal building, the office of planning &,&,&,....something (LOL)
Technology is amazing, but I still know that we had 9million residents in the Philly metro area back then... where the heck did 2.2million of them go to, Vegas??
They use that "new math"; that we keep hearing about....changing parameters to cause any discord possible.
Their intent is not to debate; only to get a rise out of adults with any rhetoric that suits them. They insist they know better than the Census Bureau. Boys will be boys.
Technology is amazing, but I still know that we had 9million residents in the Philly metro area back then... where the heck did 2.2million of them go to, Vegas??
Looks like about 4,000,0000 of them at least went to NYC.And another million or 2 to Washington.
No offense to said areas but any list that has Detroit and Atlanta ahead of Philadlephia needs to be scrunched up and tossed in the trash bin.
Monclair, You are correct about the CSA population rules and stats but...Rainrock has a point.
The Philly TV market is larger than the Bay Area's.
If you take the Bay Area's CSA land area and compare that same land area around Philly, I bet Philly has the larger population. But many of those Philly people are not connected to Philly the same way their counterparts are related to SF. Hence, SF has the larger CSA population.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
You guys are actually taking the time to look this stuff up? (LOL)
city hall annex, the federal building, the office of planning &,&,&,....something (LOL)
. Boys will be boys.
