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Yes, and while both cities have had fairly amazing urban condo movements most of the growth in both cities has been Suburban sprawl so the article is still relevant. Two cities ranked #1 and #2 for sprawl in 1999, ten years later have grown even more...
I only brought this study up because someone claimed Charlotte was much more compact and dense than Nashville and that's simply not true. Any large difference in population distance and proximity can be explained with topography and city government. The two cities are both very much sprawled.
That's fine...just don't misrepresent the study in the process.
I believe that Charlotte has changed quite a bit in 15-20 years and has densified it's core, much like Atlanta and Houston have. I have no idea if Charlotte is more compact and dense than Nashville, but I know it's moreso than it was in 1990.
I only brought this study up because someone claimed Charlotte was much more compact and dense than Nashville and that's simply not true. Any large difference in population distance and proximity can be explained with topography and city government. The two cities are both very much sprawled.
This statement (and statements like it) is why I chose to leave this thread alone. There are just too many Nashville posters (like yourself) that have completely ignored the data and FACTS I have posted on both of these cities/metros.
I, nor any other Charlotte poster, have ANYTHING against Nashville at all. Again, I think this thread is just based on a lot of ignorance on the part of some of our Nashville posters. Too many of you guys think Nashville and Charlotte are equal sized cities/metros. The reason for this mentality is because Charlotte and Nashville are often mentioned together as peer cities (which they are in many ways). Metro LA and NYC are "peer metros" too. However, that doesn't mean metro NYC and LA have the same size/layout. Look at numbers one more time for both of these metros (Charlotte/Nashville). This is the last time I will post this info because too many of you are just flat out ignoring the truth.
Nashville (city)
650,000 population (roughly)
502 sq/mi land area
Charlotte (city)
700,000 population (roughly)
287 sq/mi land area
Nashville (metro CSA)
1.6 million population (roughly)
6,300 sq/mi land area
Charlotte (metro CSA)
2.4 million population (roughly)
6,500 sq/mi land area
Nashville GDP
$78 billion (roughly) and shrinking as of last quarter 2009
Charlotte GDP
$118 billion (roughly) and growing as of last quarter 2009
When someone from Charlotte and Nashville (on this thread) accused me of "exaggerating" Charlotte's size and importance on this thread, I laughed sooooo hard that I almost wet myself. Sorry, but one CAN NOT "exaggerate" the cold hard facts that he has googled. Opinions are opinions. Facts are facts.
Also, it is a very common practice (on the forums and real life) to group cities/metros based on population, economic activity, size/layout, etc. Cities ARE NOT generally grouped together based on things like "outdoor activities". Whenever it is decided which city belongs in which tier of cities, population/layout is often the #1 factor. In the case of Charlotte and Nashville, both metros are in the same tier. However, metro Charlotte is on the verge of the "next tier". Nashville is not (and won't be there in 10 years either).
Now, you all may continue with this pointless "Nashville is equal to Charlotte" thread that COMPLETELY ignores all facts and figures that prove otherwise.
Have a nice day y'all.
Last edited by urbancharlotte; 11-01-2009 at 09:23 AM..
This statement (and statements like it) is why I chose to leave this thread alone. There are just too many Nashville posters (like yourself) that have completely ignored the data and FACTS I have posted on both of these cities/metros.
I, nor any other Charlotte poster, have ANYTHING against Nashville at all. Again, I think this thread is just based on a lot of ignorance on the part of some of our Nashville posters. Too many of you guys think Nashville and Charlotte are equal sized cities/metros. The reason for this mentality is because Charlotte and Nashville are often mentioned together as peer cities (which they are in many ways). Metro LA and NYC are "peer metros" too. However, that doesn't mean metro NYC and LA have the same size/layout. Look at numbers one more time for both of these metros (Charlotte/Nashville). This is the last time I will post this info because too many of you are just flat out ignoring the truth.
Nashville (city)
650,000 population (roughly)
502 sq/mi land area
Charlotte (city)
700,000 population (roughly)
287 sq/mi land area
Nashville (metro CSA)
1.6 million population (roughly)
6,300 sq/mi land area
Charlotte (metro CSA)
2.4 million population (roughly)
6,500 sq/mi land area
Nashville GDP
$78 billion (roughly) and shrinking as of last quarter 2009
Charlotte GDP
$118 billion (roughly) and growing as of last quarter 2009
When someone from Charlotte and Nashville (on this thread) accused me of "exaggerating" Charlotte's size and importance on this thread, I laughed sooooo hard that I almost wet myself. Sorry, but one CAN NOT "exaggerate" the cold hard facts that he has googled. Opinions are opinions. Facts are facts.
Also, it is a very common practice (on the forums and real life) to group cities/metros based on population, economic activity, size/layout, etc. Cities ARE NOT generally grouped together based on things like "outdoor activities". Whenever it is decided which city belongs in which tier of cities, population/layout is often the #1 factor. In the case of Charlotte and Nashville, both metros are in the same tier. However, metro Charlotte is on the verge of the "next tier". Nashville is not (and won't be there in 10 years either).
Now, you all may continue with this pointless "Nashville is equal to Charlotte" thread that COMPLETELY ignores all facts and figures that prove otherwise.
Have a nice day y'all.
OMG. What tier? Miami, Atlanta, Houston...? You're exaggerating. I didn't know a place of 1.8 million people is on the verge of being in the same leagues as places with 5.5-6 million... Stop bashing Nashville. Both areas area playing on the same playing field. Just because one outdoes the other in a set of stats YOU chose doesn't make one better than the other. You're taking this misleading Charlotte boosterism to new heights. Yeah Charlotte and Atlanta are in the same league. Stop embarrassing yourself.
OMG. What tier? Miami, Atlanta, Houston...? You're exaggerating. I didn't know a place of 1.8 million people is on the verge of being in the same leagues as places with 5.5-6 million... Stop bashing Nashville. Both areas area playing on the same playing field. Just because one outdoes the other in a set of stats YOU chose doesn't make one better than the other. You're taking this misleading Charlotte boosterism to new heights. Yeah Charlotte and Atlanta are in the same league. Stop embarrassing yourself.
I don't think he was saying that Charlotte and Atlanta are in the same league...to me, he said that Charlotte and Nashville are in the same league, but just that Charlotte (pop. 2.4 million, not 1.8 million) is toward the top end of that league and Nashville is somewhere in the middle - at least according to size and growth.
Charlotte could possibly move up a level in 10 years if it added another million residents or so, but I don't really see Nashville doing the same. It didn't seem like he was saying that Charlotte is better than Nashville because of this, but just that there are some people who choose to ignore the facts.
I don't think he was saying that Charlotte and Atlanta are in the same league...to me, he said that Charlotte and Nashville are in the same league, but just that Charlotte (pop. 2.4 million, not 1.8 million) is toward the top end of that league and Nashville is somewhere in the middle - at least according to size and growth.
Charlotte could possibly move up a level in 10 years if it added another million residents or so, but I don't really see Nashville doing the same. It didn't seem like he was saying that Charlotte is better than Nashville because of this, but just that there are some people who choose to ignore the facts.
The only reason Charlotte's CSA is so high is because the Census Bureau added rural-distant counties to Charlotte's metro, because there are no independent cities surrounding Charlotte at all. The 2.4 million figure has a land area of almost 9,000 miles. Charlotte's MSA is 1.8 million in a little over 3,000 sq miles. Civic leaders have been touting this CSA figure for almost a decade to bring notoriety to Charlotte. Charlotte's skyline is the result of having America's two largest banks headquartered there, it's not because Charlotte is a very large area, which it is not. This is the truth. Charlotte has been blessed with having very forward thinking civic leaders, who understand the importance of recruiting and promoting BIG business. If it were a typical 700k+ city (small and dense), I would be extremely underwhelmed with what it has to offer. IMO, Charlotte dominates per capita, when it comes to city amenities. Even though some stats are misleading, Charlotte is a very impressive city for it's size.
The only reason Charlotte's CSA is so high is because the Census Bureau added rural-distant counties to Charlotte's metro, because there are no independent cities surrounding Charlotte at all. The 2.4 million figure has a land area of almost 9,000 miles. Charlotte's MSA is 1.8 million in a little over 3,000 sq miles. Civic leaders have been touting this CSA figure for almost a decade to bring notoriety to Charlotte. Charlotte's skyline is the result of having America's two largest banks headquartered there, it's not because Charlotte is a very large area, which it is not. This is the truth. Charlotte has been blessed with having very forward thinking civic leaders, who understand the importance of recruiting and promoting BIG business. If it were a typical 700k+ city (small and dense), I would be extremely underwhelmed with what it has to offer. IMO, Charlotte dominates per capita, when it comes to city amenities. Even though some stats are misleading, Charlotte is a very impressive city for it's size.
Okay, let's not exaggerate here...the 2.4 million includes 6,503 square miles. The "distant counties" of Catawba, Alexander, and Chesterfield are not included in that figure, but they are sometimes included in Charlotte's CSA and would give it a total of area of 8000 square miles.
The city doesn't have anything to do with setting the MSA or CSA - that is the job of the Census Bureau - so Charlotte leaders "touting" the CSA is not unusual...every city does that.
Additionally, there are several independent cities surrounding Charlotte: Gastonia (70,000); Rock Hill (67,000); Concord (63,000); Hickory (51,000); Kannapolis (39,000); Huntersville (34,000); Salisbury (28,000); Monroe (28,000); Mattews (24,000); etc, etc, etc.
Nashville (city)
650,000 population (roughly)
502 sq/mi land area
Charlotte (city)
700,000 population (roughly)
287 sq/mi land area
Nashville (metro CSA)
1.6 million population (roughly)
6,300 sq/mi land area
Charlotte (metro CSA)
2.4 million population (roughly)
6,500 sq/mi land area
)
Nashville has a consolidated city-county government. Charlotte annexes as the city grows. Therefore, Nashville includes huge portions of undeveloped land that will likely never be developed due to topography. Unless you have been to Northwest Nashville and have seen the terrain you can't comment on this. It is also true that most of Nashville's metro population...and probably Charlotte's too clings to the city limit borders and along the interstate. The size of the counties is being used here but the populations are simply not spread out throughout the whole of Nashville's suburban counties.
Okay, let's not exaggerate here...the 2.4 million includes 6,503 square miles. The "distant counties" of Catawba, Alexander, and Chesterfield are not included in that figure, but they are sometimes included in Charlotte's CSA and would give it a total of area of 8000 square miles.
The city doesn't have anything to do with setting the MSA or CSA - that is the job of the Census Bureau - so Charlotte leaders "touting" the CSA is not unusual...every city does that.
Additionally, there are several independent cities surrounding Charlotte: Gastonia (70,000); Rock Hill (67,000); Concord (63,000); Hickory (51,000); Kannapolis (39,000); Huntersville (34,000); Salisbury (28,000); Monroe (28,000); Mattews (24,000); etc, etc, etc.
City vs city. Nashville and Charlotte are comparable. Charlotte is larger, but not enough to be easily distinguished. Atlanta should not roll of the tongues of anyone comparing anything inside of North Carolina. We don't have any city remotely on Atlanta's level. By the time the metro's in North Carolina reach Atlanta's present day size, Metro Atlanta would raised the bar even further beyond 10 million.
Regardless of incorporation those aren't cities, but are towns. Gastonia and Rock Hill are too small to dominate a metro area. They are nothing more than Charlotte suburbs.
Charlotte>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Nashville IMO, but that doesn't mean they aren't comparable.
City vs city. Nashville and Charlotte are comparable. Charlotte is larger, but not enough to be easily distinguished. Atlanta should not roll of the tongues of anyone comparing anything inside of North Carolina. We don't have any city remotely on Atlanta's level. By the time the metro's in North Carolina reach Atlanta's present day size, Metro Atlanta would raised the bar even further beyond 10 million.
Regardless of incorporation those aren't cities, but are towns. Gastonia and Rock Hill are too small to dominate a metro area. They are nothing more than Charlotte suburbs.
Charlotte>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Nashville IMO, but that doesn't mean they aren't comparable.
I didn't say that the two cities aren't comparable...they definitely are...I was just responding to your post with some factual information.
By NC's definition of a city, Gastonia, Kannapolis, Concord, Salisbury, Hickory, etc. certainly are cities...some of them older and even historically larger than Charlotte. Whatever your personal definition of a city may be, these are cities to most people.
None of those places dominate the Charlotte area. Their main economic life line is Charlotte. That's beside the point. I'll be a bit clearer. Charlotte does not have any dominating cities close by. Winston Salem, Greenville SC, and Hickory are the closest dominating cities to Charlotte. You will never hear of a Gastonia or Rock Hill metropolitan area. Kings Mountain is an incorporated city even though it's only 10,000 people, but it's not large enough to have it's own metro. Charlotte is the only sizable city in that part of NC and SC. As Urban refers to it. "Mono-centric!"
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There are just too many Nashville posters (like yourself) that have completely ignored the data and FACTS I have posted on both of these cities/metros.
Sorry, but one CAN NOT "exaggerate" the cold hard facts that he has googled. Opinions are opinions. Facts are facts.
Stop bashing Nashville. Both areas area playing on the same playing field. Just because one outdoes the other in a set of stats YOU chose doesn't make one better than the other. You're taking this misleading Charlotte boosterism to new heights. Yeah Charlotte and Atlanta are in the same league. Stop embarrassing yourself.