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Not gonna debate what exactly constitutes what Upstate NY is, but for the purpose of this discussion, please use everything north of Poughkeepsie and as far west as Buffalo as your thinking for Upstate NY.
Looking for input on the following to see which one wins out:
Which one is more landlord-friendly?
Which one has less of a tax burden? Do the local income taxes on many OH cities/towns even it out among NYS's overall higher tax burden for residents?
Which one is more conservative?
Does the economic outlook in the next 50 years look better or worse for either one of these regions?
Would you rather visit/live on the beaches of Lake Erie or Lake Ontario? Are the Finger Lakes better than OH's Lake Erie coast?
Last edited by MrJones17; 11-30-2018 at 06:07 AM..
Ohio is definitely more politically conservative and business-friendly (see fracking for an easy example of the difference).
Comparing Finger Lakes to Lake Erie is apples and oranges. If you want an actual sandy beach you won't find that in the FLX. If you want to toodle around in a small sailboat in the summertime without big waves you're better off in the Finger Lakes.
Despite unaccustomed high water this year on Seneca Lake especially, your lakeside home would be far more likely to be taken out by a storm on a Great Lake. The southern ends of the Finger Lakes usually have steep banks, so your dock could be damaged in high water but not the cottage. The ongoing damage comes in your property tax bill in the FLX, away from the lakes the towns (here used in the municipality sense) that include lake shore (with limited exceptions in the heart of the wine tourism area, and close to Ithaca) are basically Appalachia without coal, without revenue possibilities other than the cottagers.
Ohio is definitely more politically conservative and business-friendly (see fracking for an easy example of the difference).
Comparing Finger Lakes to Lake Erie is apples and oranges. If you want an actual sandy beach you won't find that in the FLX. If you want to toodle around in a small sailboat in the summertime without big waves you're better off in the Finger Lakes.
Despite unaccustomed high water this year on Seneca Lake especially, your lakeside home would be far more likely to be taken out by a storm on a Great Lake. The southern ends of the Finger Lakes usually have steep banks, so your dock could be damaged in high water but not the cottage. The ongoing damage comes in your property tax bill in the FLX, away from the lakes the towns (here used in the municipality sense) that include lake shore (with limited exceptions in the heart of the wine tourism area, and close to Ithaca) are basically Appalachia without coal, without revenue possibilities other than the cottagers.
Thanks for your input. A few follow up questions:
From the research I've been doing, the only area in OH that seems to be growing at a booming pace is Columbus. Literally no where in upstate NY has been "booming" in decades. Probably even longer than that lol. Could you see more corporations moving their headquarters to Columbus because of this in the future? Despite, say, the Albany area being a region close to NYC and Boston? I know it's a strange question, but I'm trying to think of which area makes the most sense for corporations to be attracted to. I know NYS hands out subsidies for corporations left and right since they won't move there otherwise. Not sure if OH does the same thing. I also wonder if US companies from OH will still continue to move their operations down to the southeast, or if the OH government will make their state more business-friendly to try and end this trend.
From the research I've been doing, the only area in OH that seems to be growing at a booming pace is Columbus. Literally no where in upstate NY has been "booming" in decades. Probably even longer than that lol. Could you see more corporations moving their headquarters to Columbus because of this in the future? Despite, say, the Albany area being a region close to NYC and Boston? I know it's a strange question, but I'm trying to think of which area makes the most sense for corporations to be attracted to. I know NYS hands out subsidies for corporations left and right since they won't move there otherwise. Not sure if OH does the same thing. I also wonder if US companies from OH will still continue to move their operations down to the southeast, or if the OH government will make their state more business-friendly to try and end this trend.
Columbus is experiencing the most growth of all the cities in the these two areas. Cincinnati is not too far behind and actually has better job growth certain years over Columbus. The Columbus metro is by far the fastest growing and will probably continue to do so due to its diverse economy, state institutions , government and being the magnet for the rest of Ohio.
I have lived in the Columbus area for 14 years and love it. Don't expect to be wowed by natural beauty , although the Scioto River restoration has done wonders.
I don't forsee that many more fortune 500 companies moving here but the Chipotle, Amazon, Facebook have all announced offices/ warehouses recently.
The future of the Midwest is going through Columbus no doubt, good luck.
From the research I've been doing, the only area in OH that seems to be growing at a booming pace is Columbus. Literally no where in upstate NY has been "booming" in decades. Probably even longer than that lol. Could you see more corporations moving their headquarters to Columbus because of this in the future? Despite, say, the Albany area being a region close to NYC and Boston? I know it's a strange question, but I'm trying to think of which area makes the most sense for corporations to be attracted to. I know NYS hands out subsidies for corporations left and right since they won't move there otherwise. Not sure if OH does the same thing. I also wonder if US companies from OH will still continue to move their operations down to the southeast, or if the OH government will make their state more business-friendly to try and end this trend.
To be honest, all states hand out subsidies to some degree.
Also, keep in mind that parts of Lake Erie are in Upstate NY, along with Lake Ontario and Lake Champlain, all of which have lakeside beaches. There is also Oneida Lake, the biggest inland lake in NY State, that also has beaches and others as well.
I will also say that while not "booming", the Albany, Ithaca and even the smaller Watertown and Plattsburgh areas have/has had some slower, steady growth in recent years. You also have the Rochester area which has never had population loss in an official census. So, in some aspects, having slow, but steady growth may not necessarily be a bad thing.
I know that you didn't mention it, but is pay an aspect? I only ask because even if taxes are a little bit lower, pay may also be lower. So, for instance, Columbus has an annual average pay that is about 8k lower than the Ithaca area and 2k lower than the Albany area in that regard, while literally being a few hundred higher than that of Syracuse and Rochester. Cleveland, Cincinnati and Dayton has lower figures than that of those 4 Upstate areas and is right on par with Buffalo in that regard. So, that may be another thing to consider in terms of employment and/or the rental game. Source: https://www.bls.gov/oes/current/oessrcma.htm#O https://www.bls.gov/oes/current/oessrcma.htm#N
Cincinnati is likely back to growth--not a huge amount of growth, but compared to a half century of sustained and sometimes dramatic population loss, some city growth is fantastic. Meanwhile, the metropolitan area is also seeing continued growth.
Location: Appalachian New York, Formerly Louisiana
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Many parts of NY are conservative as well, we're just totally drowned out by the overwhelming liberal population.
Look at any county by county election map in recent history and you'll see that without NYC and Albany, NY would be more like PA.
That said, Ohio is likely more widely conservative due to less conquering urban sectors and more southern migration inward than NY.
It is important to mention that the Finger lakes of NY DO have sandy beaches, and several of them used to have beaches that have long since eroded away (for multiple reasons).
As for growth and business friendliness, Ohio wins out. Upstate NY is slowly rusting away faster than it is growing, save for a few pockets with a lot of money (Ithaca owes itself to Cornell).
Ohio has a brighter future from today. However, a lot of NY's defeat comes from its narrow minded political approach to everything. Especially with a state government full of deeply urban lefty folk, many of whom do not understand the rural and small town areas and have likely never been poor or struggling in the lower ends of middle class.
Especially after the last mid term election outcome.
Many parts of NY are conservative as well, we're just totally drowned out by the overwhelming liberal population.
Look at any county by county election map in recent history and you'll see that without NYC and Albany, NY would be more like PA.
That said, Ohio is likely more widely conservative due to less conquering urban sectors and more southern migration inward than NY.
It is important to mention that the Finger lakes of NY DO have sandy beaches, and several of them used to have beaches that have long since eroded away (for multiple reasons).
As for growth and business friendliness, Ohio wins out. Upstate NY is slowly rusting away faster than it is growing, save for a few pockets with a lot of money (Ithaca owes itself to Cornell).
Ohio has a brighter future from today. However, a lot of NY's defeat comes from its narrow minded political approach to everything. Especially with a state government full of deeply urban lefty folk, many of whom do not understand the rural and small town areas and have likely never been poor or struggling in the lower ends of middle class.
Especially after the last mid term election outcome.
Those bolded words can/are connected for some as well.
Also, to be fair, if we are comparing states without their biggest cities, I'd say that Upstate NY would be more "liberal" than PA and is generally moderate anyway. This is given that most people in Upstate NY live in urban areas of various sizes.
So, given the responses here, it seems like the only cities worth paying attention to are the major Ohio cities. I agree that the outlook for Buffalo and Rochester is a lot darker than the outlook for Cleveland and Cincinnati, but by how much is the question.
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