RTA: What's good, bad, and improvable (Cleveland, Parma: apartment complex, health insurance, mover)

[bjimmy24]

Originally Posted by QCongress83216

I always wondered why the Rapid and buses don't extend to suburbs like Medina and Mentor. That would boost ridership for people in those 'burbs who don't want to pay for parking going Downtown and those who live in the city.

I'm not sure people that far out would ditch their cars. Some would but the overwhelming majority would not. Also , I'd rather see people filling the city in than making it easier to maintain sprawl and low density.

[Kamms]

RTA was created, in part, to create a county wide rail system. This, like the 1950s voter approved subway, didn’t happen. The creation of RTA in 1974 was really the last hurrah of Cleveland voters being transit progressive. Post 1980, RTA peak ridership levels began to tank and have been doing so since.

Had Cleveland gotten its voter approved subway and county rail network, its decline most likely wouldn’t have been so severe and an actual results of a real recovery would have taken place by now.

Even when Cleveland takes a step forward like building the best BRT line in the country, it takes a step backward due to somehow equating fare enforcement with racism, which was all tied up with a bow on top by a local municipal judge using inept legal logic.

As far as buses and rapids into surrounding counties, that would mean counties like Lake and Medina, using your example, would have to pay $$. Not gonna happen, especially in 2018 and with RTA’s continued top to bottom corruption, nepotism, ineptness, and planning.

[TheProf]

Originally Posted by QCongress83216

I always wondered why the Rapid and buses don't extend to suburbs like Medina and Mentor. That would boost ridership for people in those 'burbs who don't want to pay for parking going Downtown and those who live in the city.

It's a nice idea in theory, but not practical in terms of reality. In both cases you're talking about extending a heavy rail rapid transit line -- the most expensive mass transit line to build and maintain -- 25+ miles outside downtown. In this country, only the DC Metro and SF's BART have lines like this -- and both of these cities have among the densest core cities -- both small, but very dense -- along with dense suburban tracts surrounding them. Cleveland just isn't that city, and never was. I believe Cleveland, as a moderate density city is fortunate to have the rail it does although I realize, that when the Rapid was built, Cleveland's population's peaked at around 914K which, considering the city's rather modest 77 square mile size, meant it had a whopping density of around 11,800 residents per square mile -- the current 388K population weighs in at just over 5,000/square mile. Even still, aside from the lower Hough/Euclid corridor to University Circle, which had a number of, now long-gone apartment complexes, Cleveland was always a core wood-frame house on generous lots with driveways between each. There were/are a ton of those Cleveland Double 2-family houses the line neighborhoods and small brick walk-ups dotting some of the streets.

Cleveland best hope for that length of rail service is commuter rail -- diesel powered trains -- probably double-decker push pull engine sets mainly running during rush hours. That's the only deep penetrating rail extension that makes sense, not rapid transit. And even with commuter rail, here, you have the obstacles of the surrounding counties not ponying up for subsidy, a backwards/conservative Republican legislature that won't fund transit and commercial freight carriers that won't allow the commuter trains to share their rails -- usually ******ing about the cost of insurance for such service.

There are still more modest inside Cuyahoga County extensions worth exploring -- ie LRT to Parma, primarily surface, in-street (though perhaps segregated from autos) down W. 25th and Pearl. Even with the so-called CSU BRT, a rail extension from the Red Line at West Boulevard westward into very dense Lakewood along the Norfolk Southern line makes sense. And then perhaps a Red Line extension to the old Euclid Square shopping center and a Blue Line link from Van Aken/Warrensville to North Randall -- both destinations are now hosting high-employment Amazon engagement centers.

[WRnative]

Originally Posted by Kamms

As far as buses and rapids into surrounding counties, that would mean counties like Lake and Medina, using your example, would have to pay $$. Not gonna happen, especially in 2018 and with RTA’s continued top to bottom corruption, nepotism, ineptness, and planning.

Bus service between Lake County and Cleveland has been fairly robust for decades, including park-n-ride service and even Laketran's very popular Dial-a-Ride point-to-point service, which is used by many to travel to and from University Circle's medical facilities.

LakeTran, Lake County's mass transit service, offers significant service to Cleveland, including point-to-point service to University's medical institutions -- VA Medical Service, University Hospitals and the Clinic. The point-to-point service to University Circle is free to veterans and discounted to seniors.

https://laketran.com/dial-a-ride/

https://laketran.com/dial-a-ride/cle...ical-services/

LakeTran also offers park-n-ride bus service to downtown Cleveland and Cleveland State. It has an RTA transfer policy, so this service could be used to get to Cleveland Hopkins (I've never checked to see if the LakeTran lots offers extended parking services). RTA offers service to Shoregate in Willowick on Lakeshore Blvd. via the 39 buses. LakeTran offers service from some locations in eastern Cuyahoga County to Lakeland Community College.

https://laketran.com/park-n-ride/

https://laketran.com/riding-laketran/rta-transfers/

I'm not familiar with services offered by other transit agencies to Cleveland, but it's likely tailored for commuters and day visitors from the few times I've checked. Greyhound likely supplements public transit options, especially to and from Akron.

https://www.akronmetro.org/rta-connections.aspx

From Lake County, I doubt there is much demand for rail service to downtown Cleveland. My impression, speaking with many persons who live in Lake County, that more Lake County residents work in the I-271 corridor, especially for Progressive, these days than downtown. Ironically, I don't believe Laketran offers much service there, likely because most persons drive personal vehicles and there is no demand.

An RTA transit center integrating Greyhound, other northeast Ohio mass transit service connections (even though if you were to check Laketran routes through downtown Cleveland, a transit center at the Muny Lot off the Shoreway would seem like a waste of time for passengers compared to present service), perhaps even Amtrak, offering robust service to Public Square for Red Line connections, probably would offer the most bang-for-the-buck of any future RTA infrastructure development.

[Kamms]

Originally Posted by WRnative

Bus service between Lake County and Cleveland has been fairly robust for decades, including park-n-ride service and even Laketran's very popular Dial-a-Ride point-to-point service, which is used by many to travel to and from University Circle's medical facilities.

LakeTran, Lake County's mass transit service, offers significant service to Cleveland, including point-to-point service to University's medical institutions -- VA Medical Service, University Hospitals and the Clinic. The point-to-point service to University Circle is free to veterans and discounted to seniors.

https://laketran.com/dial-a-ride/

https://laketran.com/dial-a-ride/cle...ical-services/

LakeTran also offers park-n-ride bus service to downtown Cleveland and Cleveland State. It has an RTA transfer policy, so this service could be used to get to Cleveland Hopkins (I've never checked to see if the LakeTran lots offers extended parking services). RTA offers service to Shoregate in Willowick on Lakeshore Blvd. via the 39 buses. LakeTran offers service from some locations in eastern Cuyahoga County to Lakeland Community College.

https://laketran.com/park-n-ride/

https://laketran.com/riding-laketran/rta-transfers/

I'm not familiar with services offered by other transit agencies to Cleveland, but it's likely tailored for commuters and day visitors from the few times I've checked. Greyhound likely supplements public transit options, especially to and from Akron.

https://www.akronmetro.org/rta-connections.aspx

From Lake County, I doubt there is much demand for rail service to downtown Cleveland. My impression, speaking with many persons who live in Lake County, that more Lake County residents work in the I-271 corridor, especially for Progressive, these days than downtown. Ironically, I don't believe Laketran offers much service there, likely because most persons drive personal vehicles and there is no demand.

An RTA transit center integrating Greyhound, other northeast Ohio mass transit service connections (even though if you were to check Laketran routes through downtown Cleveland, a transit center at the Muny Lot off the Shoreway would seem like a waste of time for passengers compared to present service), perhaps even Amtrak, offering robust service to Public Square for Red Line connections, probably would offer the most bang-for-the-buck of any future RTA infrastructure development.

The topic is RTA though, not LakeTran. This is why I didn't mention LakeTran. RTA extending bus and rapid transit service to, in this case, Lake or Medina Counties. We're all aware of LakeTran otherwise.

[pvande55]

Cleveland should get commuter rail. Existing light rail lines are just too short. Yes, I know there was once a line to Youngstown, abandoned in the 1970's. How about one to the east, one to the south, one to the west, each 80 km long?

[WRnative]

Originally Posted by Kamms

As far as buses and rapids into surrounding counties, that would mean counties like Lake and Medina, using your example, would have to pay $$. Not gonna happen, especially in 2018 and with RTA’s continued top to bottom corruption, nepotism, ineptness, and planning.

Originally Posted by Kamms

The topic is RTA though, not LakeTran. This is why I didn't mention LakeTran. RTA extending bus and rapid transit service to, in this case, Lake or Medina Counties. We're all aware of LakeTran otherwise.

You said that Lake County would have to pay dollars to see bus service extended into Lake County. As LakeTran already provides substantial bus service to Cleveland and eastern Cuyahoga County, I didn't know what you were talking about, and still don't.

Why would Lake County or RTA want to see duplicate service provided, especially as whatever point-to-point service is offered by RTA is far inferior to LakeTran's "Dial-a-Ride" service?

[WRnative]

Originally Posted by pvande55

Cleveland should get commuter rail. Existing light rail lines are just too short. Yes, I know there was once a line to Youngstown, abandoned in the 1970's. How about one to the east, one to the south, one to the west, each 80 km long?

Cleveland shouldn't get anything that isn't economically justified, especially when existing services are greatly underfunded.

[TheProf]

It's ridiculous to say the multimodal transportation center on Lake Erie would be a failure without having any facts to back it up.

[Kamms]

Originally Posted by WRnative

You said that Lake County would have to pay dollars to see bus service extended into Lake County. As LakeTran already provides substantial bus service to Cleveland and eastern Cuyahoga County, I didn't know what you were talking about, and still don't.

Why would Lake County or RTA want to see duplicate service provided, especially as whatever point-to-point service is offered by RTA is far inferior to LakeTran's "Dial-a-Ride" service?

Again, if the topic is RTA extending buses and rapids into Lake or Medina counties for example, then those counties would have to pay for the RTA services.

I didn't' ask the question, someone else did: Why doesn't RTA extend bus and rapid transit service to Lake or Medina counties; answer: those counties would have to pay for RTA.

Why didn't you just respond to the original post about this if you're confused by my response?