RTA: What's good, bad, and improvable (Columbus, Cleveland: lofts, theater, live)

[ferraris]

Originally Posted by TheProf

I agree with you. On the one hand, the new high-density Van Aken District is just opening at the end of the Blue Line and planners are expecting increased rail traffic to serve it. And the Green Line, though very weak during many parts of the day beyond rush hour, has a unique purpose, that is to serve distant eastern suburbs with its large, free parking lot at the Green Road terminal with easy access ... Shaker Blvd beyond is a light traffic, traffic light free, roadway that feeds directly into the lot with a grade-separated ramp under Green Road.

Last year RTA tinkered with closing the Green Line early -- at 9p on non Cavs/Indians' home game nights... But that policy was reversed and trains run until midnight once again even with Ohio's transit-starving budgets and falling sales tax revenues. The service that continues to have a target on its back is the Waterfront Line even though its 2-mile downtown service runs up the least costs ... by far ... of the 5 rail branches and has great potential once Phase 3 of the Flats East Bank project gets built ... and not what Joe Calabrese is no longer RTA GM.

Another thing to remember, especially with the green line, is that these routes are serving a lot of high income and politically connected areas. Right or wrong, I think these people would use their political and financial clout to keep the lines operating.

And nationally, closing rail lines has not been a very common thing in recent history. It's bad optics.

[TheProf]

Originally Posted by ferraris

Another thing to remember, especially with the green line, is that these routes are serving a lot of high income and politically connected areas. Right or wrong, I think these people would use their political and financial clout to keep the lines operating.

And nationally, closing rail lines has not been a very common thing in recent history. It's bad optics.

Agreed. That's why RTA is squeezing every dime it has simply to keep the trains rolling, even with crumbling infrastructure (bad tracks which are being rehabbed, and have you seen those badly deteriorating 90-year-old retaining walls where the East Side Rapid lines enter the subway leading into Tower City near the corner of Huron and Ontario lately?... it looks as if a slab could fall off onto the tracks any day now ... hopefully one doesn't). Unfortunately RTA has been canablizing bus lines whereas so many have had their frequencies cut to the bare minimum, even during rush hour, while several bus lines have been cut back, route-wise or simply disappeared from the map entirely (ie: the 42 Fairmount and the no. 12 Larchmere being just 2 examples).

[ferraris]

Originally Posted by TheProf

Agreed. That's why RTA is squeezing every dime it has simply to keep the trains rolling, even with crumbling infrastructure (bad tracks which are being rehabbed, and have you seen those badly deteriorating 90-year-old retaining walls where the East Side Rapid lines enter the subway leading into Tower City near the corner of Huron and Ontario lately?... it looks as if a slab could fall off onto the tracks any day now ... hopefully one doesn't). Unfortunately RTA has been canablizing bus lines whereas so many have had their frequencies cut to the bare minimum, even during rush hour, while several bus lines have been cut back, route-wise or simply disappeared from the map entirely (ie: the 42 Fairmount and the no. 12 Larchmere being just 2 examples).

Yeah, most of the infrastructure between Shaker Square and Tower City is pretty rough looking. There's definitely some deferred maintenance happening there.

I didn't know about the cannibalized bus lines, but I am not surprised one bit. I experienced many sudden bus line cut backs and eliminations in Pittsburgh, and the relative permanence of Shaker having rail lines really played heavily into our decision to move there even though I currently car commute. Although Pittsburgh might not be the best example since they actually did eliminate the Brown Line light rail a while back, which mostly served lower income areas.

[TheProf]

Originally Posted by ferraris

Yeah, most of the infrastructure between Shaker Square and Tower City is pretty rough looking. There's definitely some deferred maintenance happening there.

I didn't know about the cannibalized bus lines, but I am not surprised one bit. I experienced many sudden bus line cut backs and eliminations in Pittsburgh, and the relative permanence of Shaker having rail lines really played heavily into our decision to move there even though I currently car commute. Although Pittsburgh might not be the best example since they actually did eliminate the Brown Line light rail a while back, which mostly served lower income areas.

Glad you made the Shaker move. Great community...

… Was Pittsburgh's Brown Line the one that served Allentown on the surface? I realize I stopped seeing it on the map... Also is there any service on the stub from Gateway plaza to Penn Station? I always thought that gave the T a great opportunity to extend rail service out the MLK East Busway ROW... All they'd have to do is lay track and string wire. The ROW is fully developed all the way to Swissvale.

[bjimmy24]

Originally Posted by TheProf

I agree with you. On the one hand, the new high-density Van Aken District is just opening at the end of the Blue Line and planners are expecting increased rail traffic to serve it. And the Green Line, though very weak during many parts of the day beyond rush hour, has a unique purpose, that is to serve distant eastern suburbs with its large, free parking lot at the Green Road terminal with easy access ... Shaker Blvd beyond is a light traffic, traffic light free, roadway that feeds directly into the lot with a grade-separated ramp under Green Road.

Last year RTA tinkered with closing the Green Line early -- at 9p on non Cavs/Indians' home game nights... But that policy was reversed and trains run until midnight once again even with Ohio's transit-starving budgets and falling sales tax revenues. The service that continues to have a target on its back is the Waterfront Line even though its 2-mile downtown service runs up the least costs ... by far ... of the 5 rail branches and has great potential once Phase 3 of the Flats East Bank project gets built ... and not what Joe Calabrese is no longer RTA GM.

Excellent! I didn't know they had gone back to midnight closing time for the green line. I will be back for 2 weeks at the holidays and that will really come in handy.

[ferraris]

Originally Posted by TheProf

… Was Pittsburgh's Brown Line the one that served Allentown on the surface? I realize I stopped seeing it on the map...

Yes, that's it. Maybe it will return one day; Allentown's business district has picked up a lot since it shut down. The tracks are still functional and used as a detour when the other lines are being worked on, which caused some controversy.

Also is there any service on the stub from Gateway plaza to Penn Station? I always thought that gave the T a great opportunity to extend rail service out the MLK East Busway ROW... All they'd have to do is lay track and string wire. The ROW is fully developed all the way to Swissvale.

The Penn Station connection is a single track shared for both directions and cannot be expanded, making it difficult to integrate into a larger system, especially if it's in the middle of a route instead of the end.

The idea of laying track on the busways is floated on the Pittsburgh subforum from time to time. The buses travel faster than the T cars are capable of going, and a lot of routes that use the busways originate in the neighborhoods and then get on the busway -- switching to rail would turn these routes into trips that would require a transfer.

Though there would be some benefit to connecting to the other rail lines, and also some efficiency in converting the busway from a dozen or so routes to just one trunk line, eliminating the need to wait for your particular bus route when leaving downtown at rush hour. Plus buses don't have the cachet that trains do....which is less of a problem in Pittsburgh than in Ohio. I feel like here people look at you like you have two heads if they find out you're not poor and ride the bus.

[1watertiger]

https://www.cleveland.com/expo/news/...r_mobile_index

[kpl1228]

I know many don't agree (because they seem to be holding out for the real deal...whatever the heck that will be) but i've always said it would be relatively low-cost to extend the waterfront line all the way out to Eastlake using existing CSX railroad right of way along I-90. Imagine the full-blown park-and-ride stops at E. 55th and Gordon Park/MLK and Eddy Rd. and E. 152nd and E. 185th and E. 222nd.......etc......
And they would get utilized. Big time.

[TheProf]

Originally Posted by kpl1228

I know many don't agree (because they seem to be holding out for the real deal...whatever the heck that will be) but i've always said it would be relatively low-cost to extend the waterfront line all the way out to Eastlake using existing CSX railroad right of way along I-90. Imagine the full-blown park-and-ride stops at E. 55th and Gordon Park/MLK and Eddy Rd. and E. 152nd and E. 185th and E. 222nd.......etc......
And they would get utilized. Big time.

That would be super; I definitely think WFL stations at E. 55 and even E. 72nd and E. 105th can work... I would be happy even with an extension just to Collinwood (right to the Beachland Ballroom neighborhood!)... all the way to Euclid and Eastlake would be gravy.

[OhioNative]

I just drove through Public Square today for the first time in 20 years and accidentally got in one of those “Bus Only” lanes. I had never seen those before and didn’t know where I was going. An RTA driver jumped in front of my car and tried to flag down a police officer, waving his arms and yelling “that’s a $350 fine...give him a $350 ticket.” Fortunately the officer just waved me through. What a rude jerk.