MLB in Cleveland to drop "Indians" name used for over a century (layoffs, live)

[WRnative]

Originally Posted by bjimmy24

Cleveland Grays would be the best choice. Historic, classic sounding, the armory mere blocks away. But I'm almost positive it won't happen.

"Grays."

You couldn't pick a more bland name. And you attack the "Rockers" as being historically out-of-touch?

I doubt you are old enough to remember when the Grays still marched in Cleveland parades.

https://case.edu/ech/articles/c/cleveland-grays

As with most social organizations, Grays membership has suffered immeasurably in recent decades. In past decades, I've been intimately familiar with the Grays and Grays Armory. I considered joining, as many Grays members were military history enthusiasts. The other attraction was the shooting range in the basement, which at one time was used by Cleveland law enforcement officers.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grays_Armory

Grays Armory has a great theater organ, and organ concerts there are a joy for lovers of organ music.

concerts - Western Reserve Theatre Organ Society

When the Cleveland Orchestra restored its Norton Memorial Organ in 2000, it may have reduced somewhat the appeal of the Grays Armory organ concerts as Greater Cleveland organ enthusiasts now had a major alternative.

https://www.clevelandorchestra.com/d...emorial-organ/

Anyway, I couldn't think of a worst name in the 21st century than the "Grays," especially considering that gray uniforms were associated with the Confederacy in the Civil War and the Columbus NHL celebrates the Union "Blue Jackets." Of course, the inspiration for the Cleveland Grays likely was West Point's "Long Gray Line."

https://www.nhl.com/bluejackets/news...-name/c-479316

[bjimmy24]

Originally Posted by WRnative

Few persons remember or care about "Rockers" being a former WNBA team.

Your concern that "Rockers" is dated and not a name that would appeal to younger persons is much more pertinent. Unless the Cleveland franchise is inept, they should do surveys among younger persons to see if your argument has sufficient merit.

My counter arguments would be:

1) Should a franchise name be timeless, as with "Yankees," "Giants," Sox of various colors, or a name with potential merchandising opportunities, energy, and even historical identity. If your argument is correct, we should consider "Eagles," as we have bald eagles and no baseball franchise has taken the name. However, I equate "timeless" with bland -- a mere brand offering no interactive energy potential, badly needed in pro baseball today. At least with "Eagles," we could steal Auburn's "War Eagle Flight" ceremony. Persons go to Auburn games just to experience its war eagle circling the stadium above the crowd, just as I know persons who only attend Ohio State football games to enjoy TBDBITL.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TW_KfAyQhyI

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_Eagle

2) The Rock and Roll Hall of Fame has encompassed other genres of music, whether they are considered classic rock or not. E.g., rappers Run DMC were inducted into the HOF over a decade ago. If I were running the Cleveland franchise, similarly, I wouldn't restrict music performances to just classical rock. Reflecting Cleveland history, it would be great if Opening Day for the "Rockers" featured members of the Cleveland Orchestra playing a newly arranged "Rock Symphony" which would feature all types of music that have appealed to young Americans over Cleveland's past century. Singers and dancers would provide the excitement. Performers could perform atop dug-outs between innings.

3) "Rockers" isn't just a music term. It's a great double entendre for baseball aspirational dominance, certainly drawing on the excellence of great Indians teams of the past. Rock music, such as Queen's "We Will Rock You," is pervasive in sports venues throughout the U.S.

https://entertainment.expertscolumn....rts-motivation

4) "Rockers" uniquely complements an element of Cleveland's identity -- the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame and Museum. Unless you believe the Rock Hall is doomed, an outcome contradicted by record pre-COVID attendance in 2019, Rockers reinforces an identity that Cleveland has cultivated. If the Rock Hall does collapse in the post-COVID economy that may suppress tourism, and popular music returns to 19th century ballads, nothing prevents another name change.

https://www.cleveland.com/arts/2020/...king-2019.html

BTW, most baseball fans are older. Appealing to them, having them bring their children and grandchildren to games and creating future fans, is not a bad marketing policy.

5) I can't think of another name that offers so much merchandising potential. This is important to the Cleveland franchise, as Chief Wahoo was a money-making caricature for the franchise in years past as the Indians often were in the top ranks of MLB merchandisers.

6) There's an element of American and Cleveland history embedded in the name "Rockers." Youth certainly can be energized by some exciting culture that entertained their parents, grandparents, great grandparents, etc., even if not part of their immediate peer culture. Wouldn't a "Beach Boys Day" be perfect for a hot August day, with Lake Erie so nearby? The video screens could show Greater Cleveland beaches as a complement to the music.

7) Any brand must be dynamic in order to flourish and survive. If the Cleveland franchise can't manage this, as is a necessity with any minor league franchise, any franchise name will be irrelevant. I still believe that "Rockers" offers a myriad of potentially popular crowd appeal activities for baseball fans of all ages. The "Rockers" with each passing season will create their own identity.

I really don't know why you demean other people's opinions so much.

Make fun of Grays if you want. The Reds, Blues, White Sox, Red Sox etc all make colors work. What awful, unmodern names. Nobody must like those teams at all.

The Rockers is a bad joke. It's extremely -EXTREMELY - unpopular. Sorry. Maybe they can play "Thunderstruck" during the opening lineup announcement.

Seriously, the Rockers is the biggest joke on Indians internet now. https://old.reddit.com/r/ClevelandIn...t_this_happen/

What an absolute catastrophe.

[bjimmy24]

^ That reddit link has a couple decent posts that aren't just mocking the ultra-cringeworthy "Rockers" name. The best suggestion I saw there is the Cleveland Commodores, obviously a reference to Commodore Perry and the region's history in the war of 1812. I think that would be a great idea too. As the user mentioned, it matches well with the Columbus Clippers and Lake County Captains. I think that should be seriously considered, but I don't know if that is just some people online posting things.

Also, for anyone else interested in baseball history, the Grays has already been used as a name by the Homestead Grays, 1910-1950 of the Negro Leagues. Hardly a bad name at all. But that may be a reason to not use it again? Though I still think it makes sense here too. https://www.baseball-almanac.com/tre...ont2004a.shtml

The Expos considered becoming the Grays when moving to Washington : https://usatoday30.usatoday.com/spor...nickname_x.htm

[WRnative]

Originally Posted by bjimmy24

I really don't know why you demean other people's opinions so much.

You demeaned the "Rockers" name.

Many persons today believe that their opinions some how are sacrosanct compared to differing opinions. Toughen up!!!

I can't understand how anything in the post that you quoted should have personally offended you, or wasn't appropriate to this discussion. You didn't address any of the points that I raised about bland nicknames, merchandising opportunities, etc., apparently thinking that throwing a "victim" objection in my face would be sufficient to offset the merits of my argument.

I will agree if younger generations share your revulsion to the "Rockers" nickname, that is a major negative. However, I would want to see survey results verifying your argument as I suspect you are an outlier in your perceptions.

It would be derilection of the first degree if franchise management wasn't conducting marketing surveys and even conducting focus group panels of all target markets in their efforts to find the best name.

[Nomad99]

I could live with "Rocks/Rockers", "Gladiators", "Thrashers", "Sluggers" or "Tribe..." or even "Buckeyes", or just "Cleveland Baseball (Club)"... but NOT the "Eries", "Great Lakers", "Naps", "Spiders", "Slammers".

I may be just stinging from last nite's 4 quarter but... The Cleveland "UnBrowns" LOL?

[WRnative]

Originally Posted by Nomad99

I could live with "Rocks/Rockers", "Gladiators", "Thrashers", "Sluggers" or "Tribe..." or even "Buckeyes", or just "Cleveland Baseball (Club)"... but NOT the "Eries", "Great Lakers", "Naps", "Spiders", "Slammers".

I may be just stinging from last nite's 4 quarter but... The Cleveland "UnBrowns" LOL?

My memory is that the Browns this season have lost 2 games, inclusive of the Ravens game, due to poor place-kicking. Also, Denzel Ward, Greedy Williams, Ronnie Harrison and Grant Delpit injuries have eviscerated the secondary.

https://brownswire.usatoday.com/2020...injury-update/

https://brownswire.usatoday.com/2020...torn-achilles/

Now, safety Andrew Sendejo is in concussion protocol.

https://www.clevelandbrowns.com/news...-the-secondary

These missing players would have made a material impact on the outcome of the Ravens game IMO.

Do the Browns need a new strength coach???

[QCongress83216]

Originally Posted by WRnative

My memory is that the Browns this season have lost 2 games, inclusive of the Ravens game, due to poor place-kicking. Also, Denzel Ward, Greedy Williams, Ronnie Harrison and Grant Delpit injuries have eviscerated the secondary.

https://brownswire.usatoday.com/2020...injury-update/

https://brownswire.usatoday.com/2020...torn-achilles/

Now, safety Andrew Sendejo is in concussion protocol.

https://www.clevelandbrowns.com/news...-the-secondary

These missing players would have made a material impact on the outcome of the Ravens game IMO.

Do the Browns need a new strength coach???

Injuries this year aren't just a Browns problem but it's an NFL problem. A lot of injuries have mounted up throughout the season especially to notable players, where they've missed extensive time or are gone for the whole season. Also, it's the effects of having a limited off season and training camp due to the pandemic. No strength coach could've seen that coming. If you look through many NFL rosters; you're not gonna really find a lot of fully healthy teams.

[1AngryTaxPayer]

Kansas city can save money by just dropping the I. Chefs. Get woke, go broke.

[marino760]

I'm wondering when will the state of Indiana need to change it's name.

[Cleverfield]

I’ve seen the Guardians name floated a lot, in homage to the Guardians of Traffic. Personally I could get behind that name, as it connotes strength and it’s uniquely Cleveland.