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Old 04-15-2024, 09:22 AM
 
Location: North Idaho
32,634 posts, read 47,975,309 times
Reputation: 78367

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I think this has a lot to do with it. Of course styles and tastes change, but a big contributing factor is that there are cheap imitations of just about anything that used to be costly.

I'm learning to restring pearls because I naively thought they charged way too much for such a simple job. I've been stringing a lot of beads trying to perfect my knot tying. It's not actually easy. I just finished a string of jade beads. Real jade and unless you get your eye right down on it, it looks just like a string of green plastic beads.

So why would anyone pay hundreds for a string of jade that looks just like a $2.99 necklace from Walmart?

I bought some "pearls" made out of seashell and they look and feel and weigh just the same as my real pearls. Why would anyone pay thousands for a necklace that can not be told from an $8 string of fakes?

Beautiful real wood doesn't look any different from one of the better quality printed patterns on a sheet of particle board. Why pay serious money for real cherry or real walnut?

Even beautiful craftsmanship can sometimes be imitated by computer generated tools. While I can usually tell the difference between real hand carving and computer guided carving, most people can't. The younger set doesn't even know what sort of work goes into hand crafted items done with real skill. They won't pay for two months of hand work that a computer directed laser can do in 10 minutes.
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Old 04-16-2024, 10:43 AM
 
23,589 posts, read 70,358,767 times
Reputation: 49216
I call that "commodification." Find something rare, find a workaround, and sell something similar cheap. It is a core part of economic process. Aspic used to be wildly expensive and a treat for the rich - then came Knox and Jello. Motorcars used to be toys of the rich tinkerers - then came Ford. Lace was incredibly expensive - then came Jacquard.

A quote that makes more and more sense: " Why, land is the only thing in the world worth workin' for, worth fightin' for, worth dyin' for, because it's the only thing that lasts...." - Gerald O'Hara.
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Old 04-16-2024, 11:32 AM
 
Location: Dessert
10,888 posts, read 7,370,074 times
Reputation: 28059
To be fair, a tech-savvy artist/crafter designed the path followed by the computer-directed laser. That probably took nearly as much time as hand carving. (I design miniature furniture for the 3D printer. They take hours to design, more hours to correct the mistakes.)

Yes, these CAD designs can be reproduced many times, but so can a bronze sculpture.
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Old 04-16-2024, 03:45 PM
 
Location: on the wind
23,250 posts, read 18,764,714 times
Reputation: 75145
Quote:
Originally Posted by oregonwoodsmoke View Post

So why would anyone pay hundreds for a string of jade that looks just like a $2.99 necklace from Walmart?

I bought some "pearls" made out of seashell and they look and feel and weigh just the same as my real pearls. Why would anyone pay thousands for a necklace that can not be told from an $8 string of fakes?

Beautiful real wood doesn't look any different from one of the better quality printed patterns on a sheet of particle board. Why pay serious money for real cherry or real walnut?
Well, I feel there's value in the knowledge that what someone owns is the "real thing"; something that may be rare, difficult to obtain or require a lot of time and effort to create. That's where the challenge of owning something can lie. The fake requires little to no effort. What the item looks like has little to nothing to do with it, nor whether it successfully fools anyone else.

FWIW, recently I took a houseguest to a favorite local AK gift shop. Its a favorite because they usually stock better quality handicraft, including walrus ivory, antler, bone carvings, skin sewing, and wooden PacNW tribal masks. If there's a story behind the piece they'll know it; intent, history, provenience. This shop wouldn't stock the rather mindlessly produced crudely executed tourist trash. There were a number of obviously new, finely detailed wooden masks and frontlets on their walls. They weren't cheap but the prices were lower than I'd expect to pay for work from a recognized local artisan with that degree of skill.

Surprised, I asked who the carver(s) were and what village they were from. The shopkeeper told me freely the masks were in fact imports produced by an Asian artisan coop. Since the pandemic, they were finding it harder and harder to source work from indigenous AK craftspeople. She made no attempt to disguise their origin. Many folks walking into that shop wouldn't bother asking about their origin. I do bother because I know more about it and it matters to me where revenue ends up going. Knowing and appreciating genuine carving from PacNW artists, this information completely changed my view of the work. Skill-wise they were fine, culture-wise they were not. There was a lot less meaning behind the appearance. IMHO, that kind of background information can play into someone's view of "value" quite a bit.

More FWIW. Every piece of artisan craftwork I have in my own house has meaning above and beyond what it "looks" like to another person. Something about it matters to me, regardless what anyone else thinks. One of my most cherished native baskets is decorated with California quail topknots carefully gathered off birds harvested for food. It took skill, time, and care to gather enough. One of my older masks happens to be decorated with seal whiskers. At first glance they look like bits of plastic. They aren't. The carver had to have the life skills to hunt that seal initially, risk life and limb, then have the knowledge to make as much use of that creature as possible. A matter of respect. That matters to me. I don't care if someone else who looks at that mask is impressed, bored, dislikes it, or has no opinion at all.

Last edited by Parnassia; 04-16-2024 at 04:15 PM..
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Old 04-17-2024, 10:56 AM
 
Location: East of Seattle since 1992, 615' Elevation, Zone 8b - originally from SF Bay Area
44,551 posts, read 81,085,957 times
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I agree but would consider the biggest reason to be lack of interest. As the older people die off their heirs are not interested in their stuff, so it gets donated. Eventually the market gets saturated and without buyers the prices drop. We have two of the old treadle Singer Sewing machines that my wife inherited, and no way would any of our kids want them. Those are going for $100 or less now, down from $250+ 10 years ago.
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Old 04-17-2024, 05:26 PM
 
23,589 posts, read 70,358,767 times
Reputation: 49216
Quote:
Originally Posted by Parnassia View Post
Well, I feel there's value in the knowledge that what someone owns is the "real thing"; something that may be rare, difficult to obtain or require a lot of time and effort to create. That's where the challenge of owning something can lie. The fake requires little to no effort. What the item looks like has little to nothing to do with it, nor whether it successfully fools anyone else.

FWIW, recently I took a houseguest to a favorite local AK gift shop. Its a favorite because they usually stock better quality handicraft, including walrus ivory, antler, bone carvings, skin sewing, and wooden PacNW tribal masks. If there's a story behind the piece they'll know it; intent, history, provenience. This shop wouldn't stock the rather mindlessly produced crudely executed tourist trash. There were a number of obviously new, finely detailed wooden masks and frontlets on their walls. They weren't cheap but the prices were lower than I'd expect to pay for work from a recognized local artisan with that degree of skill.

Surprised, I asked who the carver(s) were and what village they were from. The shopkeeper told me freely the masks were in fact imports produced by an Asian artisan coop. Since the pandemic, they were finding it harder and harder to source work from indigenous AK craftspeople. She made no attempt to disguise their origin. Many folks walking into that shop wouldn't bother asking about their origin. I do bother because I know more about it and it matters to me where revenue ends up going. Knowing and appreciating genuine carving from PacNW artists, this information completely changed my view of the work. Skill-wise they were fine, culture-wise they were not. There was a lot less meaning behind the appearance. IMHO, that kind of background information can play into someone's view of "value" quite a bit.

More FWIW. Every piece of artisan craftwork I have in my own house has meaning above and beyond what it "looks" like to another person. Something about it matters to me, regardless what anyone else thinks. One of my most cherished native baskets is decorated with California quail topknots carefully gathered off birds harvested for food. It took skill, time, and care to gather enough. One of my older masks happens to be decorated with seal whiskers. At first glance they look like bits of plastic. They aren't. The carver had to have the life skills to hunt that seal initially, risk life and limb, then have the knowledge to make as much use of that creature as possible. A matter of respect. That matters to me. I don't care if someone else who looks at that mask is impressed, bored, dislikes it, or has no opinion at all.
WHAM! There it is. When disclosed that they were imports, I would have been pleasant and non-committal, while waiting to walk out the door. What is at play are the huge economic forces of globalization, plus some undermining of markets that are a form of warfare. I doubt most of us fully understand the centuries of brilliance in oriental thinking and strategy. I got a glimpse as I was growing up, when I was fascinated by steam engines and learned the history of the classic "Mikado" type.

Artists and artisans who cannot somehow create a unique stamp are always at risk of plagiarism an fraud.
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Old Yesterday, 02:07 PM
 
Location: on the wind
23,250 posts, read 18,764,714 times
Reputation: 75145
Quote:
Originally Posted by harry chickpea View Post
WHAM! There it is. When disclosed that they were imports, I would have been pleasant and non-committal, while waiting to walk out the door.
Which I was. No one, not the artisans nor the shopkeeper claimed the masks were of SE AK tribal origin. No tags stating anything misleading. A lie by omission. A modern era AK tribal member would sign such work. The masks had no signatures. Anyone interested who bothered to ask would find out quite easily those items weren't produced by AK tribal members. I'm sure for some, just looking like the "real thing" is enough to satisfy. It won't be enough for others. I haven't been back to the shop since (it's off my routine beaten track) but I'd be mildly curious to know how well they sold.
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