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When I'm looking at CV's for entry level positions at my co., I'm not so interested in a niche. I don't want to have to teach a new grad how to pipette, how to do basic lab math, how to plan an experiment
I can't imagine the dumbest person from a community college can get an AS in science without knowing how to pippette, and use Excel to plot a linear regression calibration curve and calculate simple stats like standard deviation.
Even as a BS grad from a state U, I could do all that as well as calculate more complicated formulas such as method limit of quantitation and use basic to some complex lab instruments.
As a MS graduate I was fluent in numerous complicated sceintific aparati, able to setup complex experiments, etc.
Even that is not enough for companies nowadays in science. You have to magically know everything the company is doing and have 5 years experience in their exact protocols, 5 years experience on the exact model instuments they are using, have 5 years experience in the exact industry they are in, and still be willing to accept crappy pay and no benefits. F that.
BTW I was and still am willing to relocate. Did not matter. I am not going to move to Boston and try to make ends meet on $18 an hour no benefits we will dump you with 1 phone call in the middle of your 2 year lease the second we don't need you with no chance for UI However.
Chemistry has more market issues than other sciences. There are lots of subspecialties, and its a crap shoot which will be in demand.
If you only have a BA your career will be relatively limited.
Teaching is a good back up if you lose the crap shoot. But in the great recession of 2008-?? that can't be counted on.
Right now, things suck. Though not for everyone.
From what I've observed Biology is worse than chemistry. Biology is easier than Chemistry so you can get the degree easier with a higher GPA since no killer Quantum or Organic Chem classes. That's what everyone did hoping to get into med school. When they did not get in they flooded the market. Most jobs in biology are also tech jobs typically microbiology testing for E Coli and Salmonela and pay slightly less than chem techs. Also, the jobs in biology seem less numerous.
I have a heavy background in both Chemistry and Biology (molecular cell and micro) and could have done either. I focused on Chem because there are more jobs and the pay is a bit higher (not much).
I can't imagine the dumbest person from a community college can get an AS in science without knowing how to pippette, and use Excel to plot a linear regression calibration curve and calculate simple stats like standard deviation.
Well, let me tell you. I had an intern this summer that would have blown you away. Yes, there are plenty of folk out there that don't know how to use a pipette as weird as that sounds.
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Even that is not enough for companies nowadays in science. You have to magically know everything the company is doing and have 5 years experience in their exact protocols, 5 years experience on the exact model instuments they are using, have 5 years experience in the exact industry they are in, and still be willing to accept crappy pay and no benefits. F that.
Give me a break. 5 years experience with the exact model. That's ridiculous and that's not how it is. How would you know, tho?
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BTW I was and still am willing to relocate. Did not matter. I am not going to move to Boston and try to make ends meet on $18 an hour no benefits we will dump you with 1 phone call in the middle of your 2 year lease the second we don't need you with no chance for UI However.
Keep telling yourself that if it makes you feel better. It's more of the same "Lou failed, therefore everyone must fail".
Give me a break. 5 years experience with the exact model. That's ridiculous and that's not how it is. How would you know, tho?
I had that a few months ago. I had a phone screen and they asked point blank have you used a Waters HPLC with Millennium Empower Software version I forgot which one. When I said no but I am skilled with HPLC and computer software they told me they are only considering candidates with Waters experience.
but yea Lou's assessment of science careers are dead on. Fits what I've seen to a T and pretty much all of my colleagues too. I know one person that ended up well off all the rest regret it and are trying to leave the field like I am.
When I taught Gen chem the first lab on the first day of class was how to use different glassware (pippettes, burets, Vol flasks) to discharge water/salt solutions (5 times each) and use a balance to get the mass calculate density, and for the report they had to get standard deviation. By the end of the semester they were using Excel to analyze a reaction to determine the kinetics and do all sorts of complex analysis. That was just Gen Chem I and everyone who was majoring or minoring in anything remotely science related had to take it. This was also a decent state University not upper tier by any means.
I'd say that intern must have been a BA and faked the degree.
I had that a few months ago. I had a phone screen and they asked point blank have you used a Waters HPLC with Millennium Empower Software version I forgot which one. When I said no but I am skilled with HPLC and computer software they told me they are only considering candidates with Waters experience.
Those are questions for low-level tech jobs where it would matter, I suppose. This brings us back to the beginning, threads ago, where I find it stunning that you both would expect to be paid as scientists for tech positions and that you don't know the difference. Trust me, jobs in science do not hinge upon knowledge of this or that software application. It can be a plus, but who gives a flying fig, really?
Of course, you guys won't believe a word I say lol.
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but yea Lou's assessment of science careers are dead on. Fits what I've seen to a T and pretty much all of my colleagues too. I know one person that ended up well off all the rest regret it and are trying to leave the field like I am.
How can his assessment be spot on when he did not have a career to begin with? And your colleagues are techs. I guess that could be considered a career, tho, it's edging on anything being deemed a career if you want to call it one.
When I taught Gen chem the first lab on the first day of class was how to use different glassware (pippettes, burets, Vol flasks) to discharge water/salt solutions (5 times each) and use a balance to get the mass calculate density, and for the report they had to get standard deviation. By the end of the semester they were using Excel to analyze a reaction to determine the kinetics and do all sorts of complex analysis. That was just Gen Chem I and everyone who was majoring or minoring in anything remotely science related had to take it. This was also a decent state University not upper tier by any means.
I'd say that intern must have been a BA and faked the degree.
Well, I didn't get to pick her. Some days I think my boss just tries to get my goat. To be clear, she lucked out in every sense of the word luck.
Frankly, pipetting, imo, doesn't even need to be taught. Pipettes are pretty self-explanatory. A person in the sciences would have to be numb in the head to not pick one up and understand what to do with it. Needless to say, she was oblivious to the second stop.
How can his assessment be spot on when he did not have a career to begin with? And your colleagues are techs. I guess that could be considered a career, tho, it's edging on anything being deemed a career if you want to call it one.
And like Lou said most people don't choose to be techs. They graduate and get pigeon-holed into it because they didn't pick a winning niche or get the jackpot as Lou said. After 6 months of no income you have to take some job for a paycheck and these are the jobs that are available, analytical chemistry testing samples. It is slightly better than working retail, but after a year or two of trying to get out of it and bumping up into wall after wall most people just want to leave the field and tell everyone in earshot what a horrible waste a science degree is.
BTW I am not really a tech
We have techs that do the I can do this with my eyes closed protocols. I deal with the unvalidated/in development makes me want to pull my hair out methods that require more in depth education and expertise to perform and troubleshoot.
And like Lou said most people don't choose to be techs. They graduate and get pigeon-holed into it because they didn't pick a winning niche or get the jackpot as Lou said.
I don't understand what it means to pick the winning niche while in school. And I don't understand why you guys keeping calling it a jackpot, which it's A. not. and B. as if a living is won. It's not won. I will admit some things can be attributed to luck, but they don't exist in isolation. For example, as I mentioned I'm trying to get my old boss's, son's, gf a gig. She went to an Ivy. Great. She did well in school and got a degree in molecular bio. Great. She wants to go to medical school and her student CV is primed for med school. A ton of volunteer work, internships, etc. But, it's all clinical. It will read excellent to med school admissions. For what my department is looking for? Not so much. There isn't much I can do for her, really. At most, I'll see if my old lab needs someone for lab mgt stuff, glass washing, buffer preparations, etc.
Point being, she has her sights set on a particular goal and she'll probably reach that goal. She's going to have a hard time trying to enter biotech with her current CV. That's life. How is that anyone's fault, tho? How is that industy's fault? It's not. She knows this. She's a smart girl.
Months ago I asked you what your student CV looked like. I didn't get much of a response, tho, I suspect you would consider it. I mentioned relocating. You can't. Frankly, I think you would do well in biotech. You read as intelligent to me. You would probably thrive. Lou, OTOH, not so much. Either way, you have things working against you. You can't relocate. That's a huge problem. It's less about industry and more about unfortunate circumstances with your personal situation.
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After 6 months of no income you have to take some job for a paycheck and these are the jobs that are available, analytical chemistry testing samples. It is slightly better than working retail, but after a year or two of trying to get out of it and bumping up into wall after wall most people just want to leave the field and tell everyone in earshot what a horrible waste a science degree is.
BTW I am not really a tech
That's the way the above sounds, but not your post below.
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We have techs that do the I can do this with my eyes closed protocols. I deal with the unvalidated/in development makes me want to pull my hair out methods that require more in depth education and expertise to perform and troubleshoot.
Ok, this reminds me of our bioanalytics lab. Our department (it's a division platform really) has a group that does the bulk of bioanalysis for all the groups and it's high through-put; thousands of samples a week. It does go above and beyond simple sample testing. To start, they're project oriented, which is key. They're always taking on new groups (analysis at least). They're always bringing in new instrumentation and optimizing. The scientists that work in this group are expected to be project oriented and to be plugging away at their professional development. People will receive poor reviews if they simply do routine work. Again, you'd probably be an excellent fit for an entry level position doing bioanalysis somewhere given your experience.
I just asked one of the lab heads today if they're going to be needing extra bodies. He said "hope so" because he's drowning. Given all the groups they're supporting, I have little doubt new hires are on the way. Our co, while one of the largest, is but one of dozens of biotechs in the Cambridge area. This is where the opportunity is as far as biotech goes. Beyond that, I don't know what else to tell you.
Frankly, I wouldn't be happy if I were you, either. I can't remember your story, tho, IIRC, it has something to do with family. You're taking care of someone, right? That's tough.
I have a mother that's ailing physically and financially. I can't just abandon her now.
Frankly I'm not at all convinced simply relocating is going to make my situation that much better and I'm not sure it is worth it if it would. Up until a few years ago I was willing and it didn't seem to help much.
If it means another 2 year MS program to get into a career that offers a decent even if minimal middle class income and lets me live in a place that I find acceptable I think that is a good option. Having to move a thousand miles from home and live in a place I don't like for an average to below average income is frankly a rotten alternative that no intelligent and highly educated American should have to make.
Also, the past 5 years I've watched my passion for science go down the tubes to the point I just really want it out of my life. It has been almost like an abusive spouse.
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