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L210-I hear ya. Like you said though, certain places such as security or parole or corrections like CJ so I do understand my options are limited and I'm fine with that. That's why people shouldn't say it's worthless, since some jobs even require it.
Even ICE special agent position lists cj as one of the preferred majors, surprised huh
By the way, people keep saying, another degree looks good on your resume cuz it shows you are smart enough to have a backup plan, well how about this: a cj degree shows that you are serious about this particular thing and not just applying to be a cop cuz you couldn't find anything else.
Last edited by OleSchoolFool; 10-29-2011 at 12:23 PM..
If you wanna get technical, Bus Admin aint about noth either then, thats what I used to study. It's a very broad field and unless you get into accounting or finance or someth like that, its all useless too. You don't know anything thoroughly in the end, you know just a little of everything, which makes you just average in the job seeking scene.
Business administration is mostly a management degree. The difference between business administration and CJ is that thousands of different jobs ask for business admin. People need managers everywhere and business administration is the default degree. Even security companies ask for a degree in CJ or business administration for their management positions. Human resource jobs ask for degrees in I/O psychology, human resource, or business administration. The government asks for public administration or business administration. I tried studying it for a little while and found it boring, but it's the most flexible degree around.
Yep, its flexible, but too broad. It's almost always better to know something specific than general jack of all trades type stuff, that will set you apart. I studied Business at the beginning becuz had no idea what else to pick, like many others so Business admin is the most popular degree, and there will be a lot of competition and very hard to land a decent job unless you are coming from a big name school. Anyway though, the main reason I am studying cj is cuz it's the only field that keeps me interested enough to get a degree, and I just wanna get it over with already, the sooner the better, I am already 25. If I needed to fall back on something else, I'd study someth else, but I only wanna do law enforcement. I already tried a lot of different things so I know what I want. If some day I break my legs and can't be a cop, (the scenario that many people list here) then there is still enough of other related jobs you can do, especially with police on your resume. My idea is that if I know fosure that this is what I will do, why not study it? Maybe cj doesn't give me specific technical skills, but I already took many business and writing classes plus gained a lot from being a real estate agent so I got the basic skills I need. People can say whatever they want, but a cj graduate is still gon be better off than someone with no degree who just learned at the academy. It's not the same thing. Also, its kinda like if you are into construction, you should study construction or civil engineering, not accounting or computer science just to have someth to fall back on, you study what's related to your future career so you can be good at it. I only plan to be a city cop, not feds so I don't need accounting or comp science or a law degree.
My point overall-cj is def not the most rigorous degree out there so therefore not the most respected, and that's fine, but it's not worthless. I heard people say political science is worthless, guess what-the CIA likes political science degrees so it's all relative and all depends on a personal situation. My only beef is when people generalize and label something worthless when it's not. I could understand why some degrees can be labeled like that, philosophy or religion (now those are hard to apply, but even then they might be valuable to some), but cj? Come on now. As I said before, I will be a cop and I am studying cop work right now, already in my classes, and instead of stupid ass, but well respected chemistry or math or accounting, which would be irrelevant completely for me, I am actually getting my money worth and getting the useful info that I will actually apply in real life, being a cop. Even the real life situations that my professors (ex cops) describe is a great learning tool that you would never get at another major. It prepares me for the work that I will be doing period, who you think will be better prepared for the academy and the job eventually, me or a complete joe with minimum qualifications?
Now, if someone really likes comp science or what not, then def they should stick with that even if they wanna be a cop. But you can't say that automatically he will be better off than a guy who got cj background, especially looking at the number of comp science grads without jobs right now. I can also get if some student got their cj at some wack ass school online, but then that school should get stigmatized, not the major.
Last edited by OleSchoolFool; 10-29-2011 at 10:00 PM..
I definitely don't think CJ is completely worthless. It may not be that useful, but it's not worthless. Even a liberal arts or general studies degree can be worth something. Some positions just want a degree, period. But I'd have to disagree with you on what's useful to LEOs. Law enforcement agencies are investigating a lot of cyber and white collar crimes these days and other behavioral sciences can be just as useful to officers out on the streets. The behavioral sciences are especially useful to those working in corrections or community supervision (parole, probation). But since you said you didn't like psychology, then I see no problem with you studying CJ because you find it enjoyable. It is a fun subject to study, but I also found psychology just as enjoyable and ended up switching majors. Actually, I enjoy all of the social sciences with the exception of economics.
I hear you there with the political science degree. Just like people don't know where one could use CJ outside of LE (although the options are very limited), a lot of people don't know where someone could use political science or international relations. The Bureau of Labor Statistics says that the demand for political scientists is going to grow faster than average and their median income is in the 6 figure range. Everyone should do their own research when deciding their major and not force themselves into a career that will make them miserable. Nursing is the hot career right now and I think a lot of people are jumping into it without evaluating personality, interest, and aptitude compatibility. Nursing is not for everyone and I hate dealing with rude, incompetent, and disinterested medical personnel.
Look-do not get a CJ degree-get a degree for plan B-why I tried out to be a cop about 6 years ago...and I didn't make it-I sat on waiting list after waiting list-passed everything but due to budget cuts -anyway I have a degree in Psychology and worked int he field for awhile-you need to have a plan B, just because I didn't make doesn't mean you won't-however, if you dont' make it-your degree won't do anythng for you-some of my friends are police officers-6 out of ten have degrees other than CJ-one has a JD and one has an accounting degree-
From everything that I have seen from my own experience and what I have read on various forums, CJ majors are having a hard time breaking into the field of CJ.
I think it is harder to get a CJ job than a job in fields like business, accounting, comp science, etc.
L210-Very good points you make. Like you said everyone needs to do their own research and decide what's best for their personal situation. For me personally a degree in accounting wouldn't do much for example, since I hate it and would not do any work associated with accounting even it would help in the start to get hired, still I would not get anywhere in the job that I hate.
From everything that I have seen from my own experience and what I have read on various forums, CJ majors are having a hard time breaking into the field of CJ.
I think it is harder to get a CJ job than a job in fields like business, accounting, comp science, etc.
If you ever noticed, there are a lot of dumb people who want to get into law enforcement. There are some intelligent law enforcement officers because departments and agencies try to do their best to weed out potentially bad employees. So I think the problem is that many people who jump the gun and get a CJ degree aren't academically prepared to get into law enforcement. I once took a written test to become a correctional officer. I ended up turning down the job because a one-year commitment was required and I didn't want to be stuck in a possibly miserable job. Anyway, half of the applicants failed the written test. All of these people had high school diplomas and GEDs and they failed a test on basic math, reasoning, and writing skills. Honestly, I don't even think people who graduate with CJ degrees are anymore prepared (depending on the school). I've taken many CJ courses and I wonder how some of these people are passing and allowed to go on with their education.
Of course, everyone knows they have to be in shape to pass the physical and get through the academy. It's other things that people tend to ignore. Some people know they have a history of substance abuse and still apply. Others have a lot of delinquent debt on their credit reports. Actually, I think checking credit to filter out potentially corruptible employees is an invalid process. I have yet to see any studies backing up the assertion that people with bad credit are susceptible to taking bribes or stealing from employers. You also have to get past polygraph and MMPI exams. You cannot plan for any potential problems with polygraphs and MMPIs. I once read on a message board that a psychologist determined that a woman was an alcoholic and drug addict by her MMPI results. The woman rarely drinks and has never used drugs. Different psychologists can come up with different conclusions from the same results. The analysis of the test is almost completely subjective.
I will be a cop, hopefully in NYPD. I am currently in school getting my Bachelor's in CJ. I hear many people around forums say that CJ is a worthless, dime a dozen degree, and cops don't need it and should major in something else, and the idea is you are not stuck with cop work only. Well, I am going to a normal, accredited, state school and the things we cover in our classes, which are taught by ex cops by the way, have everything to do with cop work, such as use of evidence, excessive force, different classes of crimes, police discretion, etc. I don't understand really how one can say it's worthless. People say get a degree in Business Admin (which is very broad, the most popular degree and really dime a dozen) or Accounting, but nobody will hire you as a bookkeeper outside of a police dept after say 10 yrs of being a street cop cuz you wouldn't have any experience! Plus getting a random degree and doing cop work is basically like getting a civil engineering degree and being a car sales man. Wouldn't you eventually be a better cop if you have the theory basics other cops don't? Maybe CJ is not as rigorous as chemistry or math or whatever, but it is what it is. With that logic people majoring in urban studies or sociology are wasting time too? Maybe they wanna be a social or a case worker so it's not worthless for them. I personally am not planning to do anything else, that's why I switched from Business Management, which was not my thing, and unless you are getting a CJ degree from "University of Phoenix" type school I don't see a reason why it should be looked down upon. What's really going on here?
I've talked to cops, and the problems are these (in their opinions):
1) C.J degrees don't really help you do the job.
2) If you don't become a cop, or can no longer be a cop, it's useless (whereas yes, with an accounting degree, even after 10 years of being a cop, you could easily be hired by one of the Big 4).
3) An accounting degree or business admin. degree will actually give you a leg up in the law enforcement field, because they provide pertinent abilities and qualifications that most cops won't have.
My wife got a B.S in accounting. Before she graduated the F.B.I was trying to recruit her. I don't believe they do that with C.J majors.
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