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It died with Lehman Brothers and Ken Lay (EnRon) and the Keating 5....
So in other words, because some people have no morals, its okay for no one to have morals? If we use that rationale, it's all okay for us to kill people. Unbelievable! I aspire to be a better person than that.
So in other words, because some people have no morals, its okay for no one to have morals? If we use that rationale, it's all okay for us to kill people. Unbelievable! I aspire to be a better person than that.
BUT we are ALL paying for their debts...I did not see politicians chasing after Ken Lay (family friends with King George) and as for the Keating 5, one actually had big enough cojones to run for president...isn't that a role mode to aspire towards?
Yes, but also -- what ever happened to due diligence on the part of the lender?[/quote When you borrow money, you are responsible for paying it back. When I bought a house, I became responsible for paying it back. That's why I didn't buy the maximum amount they told me I could qualify for, in fact I only spent 1/3 of what I qualified for. Same with buying a car. I could have purchased a luxury car, but I chose a Chevrolet because I was responsible for paying it back. I could have qualified for the loan for a luxury car, but I chose something less expensive because I was responsible for it. Not the government, nor the the taxpayers of this country. If people aren't going to be able to pay for all their college education at an expensive university, maybe they need to be attending community colleges for the first couple of years, so they don't have to go so far into debt. If people are so poor that they to be on public assistance, then surely there is some kind of grants and scholarships available. Both of my kids universities have tons of money available for the underprivileged students. It takes a bit more effort to get it than just applying for a loan, but it's free money. But I guess, with this stupid plan, its free money anyway!
Your bad decision, not mine. Why should I be responsible for it. DH and I have already paid our student loans and are getting our kids through college now. We will have paid for 4 college educations, including 2 advanced degrees. It is beyond wrong to expect us to pay your bills too.
I agree!!!
Actually if these borrowers don't have cash to go to college, they should NOT go or just wait till they save enough so they can go... ... if they CHOOSE to take on debt, THEY have the obligation to PAY IT BACK!!!
But there is no such thing as *free money* (aka money don't grow on trees or appear from thin air)...
the so called *free money* still comes from somewhere...
Be it the sponsored *charity funds* from a benefactor or the like , or some wealthy alumni contributed to their favored college or from the "president's list" for the smarts or taxpayers...
it *STILL* comes from someone's pocket (dead or alive).
Bit off topic but I wonder what some of you who are complaining are making each year. I think it's about 35% of Tea Party supporters that don't even make 50k a year. Always amusing to hear people who barely pay any taxes complain like they are big contributors.
BUT we are ALL paying for their debts...I did not see politicians chasing after Ken Lay (family friends with King George) and as for the Keating 5, one actually had big enough cojones to run for president...isn't that a role mode to aspire towards?
Yes we all have to pay... "willing to pay that debt or NOT".
I am sure YOU won't be *willing* IF you did never partake in the cake BUT still HAVE TO *PAY it* without the *CHOICE/FREEDOM* given....
Unlike the *FREEDOM / CHOICE** given to the debt incur(er)...
It is NOT fair NOR POLITE to take someone's else's *CHOICE/FREEDOM* while that same *CHOICE/FREEDOM* is given to that debt incur(er) is it???
If anyone think it is fair...
**THEY*** can be the ones to foot that bill...
NO THANK YOU for me, and I'd CHOSE NOT TO *PARTAKE* that bill--- really, I'd pass.
When you borrow money, you are responsible for paying it back. When I bought a house, I became responsible for paying it back. That's why I didn't buy the maximum amount they told me I could qualify for, in fact I only spent 1/3 of what I qualified for. Same with buying a car. I could have purchased a luxury car, but I chose a Chevrolet because I was responsible for paying it back. I could have qualified for the loan for a luxury car, but I chose something less expensive because I was responsible for it. Not the government, nor the the taxpayers of this country. If people aren't going to be able to pay for all their college education at an expensive university, maybe they need to be attending community colleges for the first couple of years, so they don't have to go so far into debt. If people are so poor that they to be on public assistance, then surely there is some kind of grants and scholarships available. Both of my kids universities have tons of money available for the underprivileged students. It takes a bit more effort to get it than just applying for a loan, but it's free money. But I guess, with this stupid plan, its free money anyway!
Your bad decision, not mine. Why should I be responsible for it. DH and I have already paid our student loans and are getting our kids through college now. We will have paid for 4 college educations, including 2 advanced degrees. It is beyond wrong to expect us to pay your bills too.
I agree with most of what you have said.
But I think that you don't understand the major point, which is this -- when you buy a house, a car, whatever, the lender supposedly has some skin in the loan, and you can declare bankruptcy and walk away. This is not so with many educational loans. We have set up a system for student loans where the lender is taking no risk at all, because student loans cannot be discharged through bankruptcy. As a result, lenders are more than happy to make crazy, stupid loans that sink 18-year-old students for the rest of their lives, and enable colleges to jack-up prices at three-times the rate of inflation.
In other words, the lender normally takes some risk in making a loan, and therefore tries to make a reasonable determination whether to make the loan or not, based on whether the borrower will be able to pay -- except for student loans. In yet other words, our present system creates perverse incentives for lenders and colleges. We are now seeing the results -- fantastic tuition charges and a substantial group of young people who will be impoverished for most of their lives.
Changing bankruptcy laws will go a long way toward solving both of these problems. Lenders will need to reign it in, and colleges won't be able to charge hideous tuitions.
By the way, I am very well off, thanks be to God, and was able to pay for my own kids' educations from petty cash, so to speak.
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If it's super important to you to not pay taxes, you can always make the choice to live below the taxable income level and become a tax protester. I wrote a news feature once on a group of Mennonites who chose to do this. For them, their purpose for protesting taxes was that they are pacifists, and that was their solution to ensuring that their taxes did not go toward funding a war chest. They lived in intentional community (essentially communally), so living below the taxable income level was easier than it would be for a person or a family living independently.
Point being that, yes, if you feel strongly enough about not paying taxes, there is at least one legal way to accomplish that. It comes at a price, too, though.
If it's super important to you to not pay taxes, you can always make the choice to live below the taxable income level and become a tax protester. I wrote a news feature once on a group of Mennonites who chose to do this. For them, their purpose for protesting taxes was that they are pacifists, and that was their solution to ensuring that their taxes did not go toward funding a war chest. They lived in intentional community (essentially communally), so living below the taxable income level was easier than it would be for a person or a family living independently.
Point being that, yes, if you feel strongly enough about not paying taxes, there is at least one legal way to accomplish that. It comes at a price, too, though.
OR the government can go back to the OLD WAYS (which tax is paid "voluntary" by independents)... which the government will become on existent, and NO MORE BAIL OUTS for debts (college, banks or whatever)... I would be more than happy to be one of those non-tax payers...
So, fine...
if WE taxpayers have to pay the taxes, we the tax payers should also HAVE the say (on our voting slip) what to give to and what NOT to give to (which my choice would not be given to bail out any banks NOR towards someone's college debt).
IF the college debt incur(er) is given that choice to take on the debt and for what subject.... well, it is only fair to give the taxpayers that right to pay for it or not... right???
NOT choking someone else with your ideals and not letting them *choose* while *you* can!!! That would be like you can murder, but I cannot... where is the "liberty" in that????
Liberty is freedom = freedom of choice for *ALL* not just the debt incur(er).
Thus brings me back to the question...
I am not willing to foot that tax bill to forgive even in any amount the college debt someone else incur...
so... who here is willing to foot that tax bill for me??? And if you foot my tax bill, I would have no problem then with anyone else's debt since I won't be the one to foot it (not my problem).
P.S. If I were to be one less person paying the tax... and how about the whole USA just quit tax totally and refuse to pay these taxes... where is the money coming from for all Obama's bills???? Someone's got to pay... it won't come out from Mr. Obama's own pocket / charity funds will it.
Its his idea... he should pay for all his ideas as "benefactor" to his college plans... not the taxpayers.
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I aspire to be a better person than that.
I agree!!!
