Obama introduces new plan for student loan debt (PhDs, Ivy League, public school)
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The compare is either not going to college or going and what debt it leaves you regardless if you graduate or not. The comparison point is zero debt and what you'd be making if you never went to college.
If I never went to college I would be making minimum wage (which is not enough to live on....even working 60 hours a week)
What ever happened to the old fashsioned way of the parents paying for the education if they could afford it? If they couldn't, then the student worked his way through or did without.
There are a LOT of jobs that require only a desire to do good. Many of them pay a lot more than the colllege education required ones. Sooo, maybe an air conditioning tech or a plumber does have a degree, but he gets a good salary, AND HE DOESN'T OWE A STUDENT LOAN.
Think about it. Who gets the most out of life, the guy with money in hs jeans, or the one that is paying off a huge student loan for years??
Because not everyone's parent is even middle class. And college tuition and books are way more expensive then even a full-time working entry-level professional can swing...much less a young person straight out of high school.
The trades aren't for everyone....especially women.
My BF currently attends community college btw. Let me tell you....it's not all rosy there, especially with recent budget cuts thrown at education from our new Republican governor. My BF planned on taking two classes that he couldn't because the course offerings were reduced and/or the times conflicted with his work hours. I work at a state university and at least there our schedule is pretty stable. Luckily for my BF, he doesn't have to worry about how this would affect his financial aid because his mother works for the community college and he gets a tuition waiver.
I completely understand the point of this, but I still do not think its right. These 18 years old you speak of are adults. They signed the paperwork agreeing to pay their loans. At what point do people become responsible for their actions? Do these kids actually think they are going to start off making $$$ with a poetry degree? A college education does not equal a large income. That's one thing we told our kids right off, do not waste our money on a degree that will not earn you a decent living. I realize that the economy has gone south and many people have not been able to get the jobs they expected. And I don't have a problem with the payment being limited to a percentage of income, but the idea of after so many years, just forgiving it. No. I cannot agree with that. They borrowed it, they owe it, they should pay it.
I totally agree that bankruptcy laws need to be changed. I know too many people that have just run up tons of debt, filed bankruptcy, only to turn around and do it again as soon as they could. I totally agree that something needs to be done about tuition at state schools. It is absolutely ridiculous.
I'm pretty much against majoring in something just because it will make you money. Our society needs teachers, social workers and journalists...even if we are not willing to pay them a decent wage. On top of that, there are professional opportunities for liberal arts grads that pay a decent wage. Jobs in insurance, real estate, communications, design, etc.
But keep in mind I am not one of those people who defines their worth in regards to their job title and/or how much money they make. When I was unemployed (for health reasons) I never hesitated to tell people. Quite a few would gasp and wonder at how I kept my spirits up. I told them that I wasn't worried about it. Working would have meant compromising my health and my peace of mind. Thankfully I had family to live with and no pressure from them to get back into the workforce.
I work at a college and hear all sorts of reasons of why people are coming back to school. Some worked in industry around here and got laid off. These are people who did all the right things but still aren't gainfully employed. This is not about making excuses...this is about confronting the reality of our current job market. In a nutshell......it sucks.
What you are advocating is no personal responsibility.
Not at all. But I don't like beating-up kids who make mistakes encouraged by their elders seeking big profits (by the way, I am over age 60).
In addition to personal responsibility, what I am advocating is (1) corporate responsibility and accountability, so that an institution making loans needs to perform due diligence to determine whether the borrowers can pay the loans back, rather than making wild, predatory, sub-prime loans to kids without any adverse consequences to the institution, (2) bring the terms of student loans into line with the terms of just about every other kind of loan available, and extend the same consumer rights to student borrowers that everybody else has for every other kind of loan, and (3) find some way out for young people who make a very serious mistake, as we do in many other circumstance for many other people.
Bottom line for me -- This is not Saudi Arabia, and I don't believe in virtual debtors prison or in cutting peoples hands off (so to speak) for the benefit of corporate lenders.
People buy cars they can't really afford all the time.
Yes, ONLY if the banks (like BOFA look how the government is supporting them after their flip {assurances of backing up loans} than flopping {suing them for the loans}) under GOVERNMENT ASSURANCES (like the Obama plan that WILL HIKE UP TUITION COST since now it is "forgivable by the government") will do that, the assurance *first* comes FROM the person borrowing (base upon "trust") and then backed by the government's trust.
"TWO" assurances for the loan... so when the person borrowed LIED about the capability to borrow & defaulted, the government (no, taxpayers) have to pick up tabs... The government's is very irresponsible in this case as IS the person borrowing... and since its the GOVERNMENT's PROMISE, THE BORROWER"S PROMISE BUT NOT the taxpayer's promise.... why should that pass and be FORCED unto a stranger taxpayers who have absolutely nothing to do with this mess in the first place???
The only part of the industry right now that is taking real advantage are the for profit schools. Even with them at some point the person borrowing has to have some personal responsibility.
Yes, I agree...
talk about "MORE GREED" encouraged by the GOVERNMENT... now these profit schools will try to make more hay while the sunshine and hike up cost to education that even the borrowers in a couple's years time cannot afford (if they cannot afford it this year, YOU THINK they will afford it next year???). Woe to the next few generation of students too... like the housing market (why the house is overpriced, college tuition will be too), when a government back a loan... that is what happens... more over inflated products (house, college, cars, bread etc.). That is how the government will deal with debt... by printing more money (our money will be worth cents & pennies to the dollar now) so they (we the taxpayers) can pay it off.
So yah... it happened in WW2 Germany, we are next... when we all be happily making that $20/hr BUT eating $1000 bread... wise move right?
***(You think the government have the money and is not in debt??? Is that how a leader of the government should "act" when he *KNOWS* very well that USA is in *debt* as a country and its government... where the hell did he think the money is coming from then???)????*** Is it a fact that the government is broke??? Harrisburg wants to declare bankruptcy???
And taking responsibility is like other posters here said... even if they have to give up cable, TV, eat ramen for the next 30 years... you tighten the belt and pay for this debt YOURSELF, NOT *impose* this debt unto someone else!!! That is "personal responsibility" in totality... if there is any excuse on that "some" part... then it is still NOT personal responsibility.
I think people who take out 30 year loans are suckers for the amount of interest they pay over the life. Should they not be able to do it because it's a poor financial decision compared to a 15 year loan?
Yes they should be able to do it provided they can still pay that debt they "promised" to pay back... its the "trust", its the "promise" and OUR "paper dollars" is based upon that same "promise" & "trust"... can you imagine how much it will be worth should that "promised trust" is no longer there?? Yah... that $1000 bread scenario.
Everyone claims people should be responsible then when they are held to a debt they take on now it's unfair.
Exactly!!!
I agree... with a great twist and fact for this... now what happens when the whole of USA and all its taxpayers and debt borrowers ALL declare bankruptcy and refused to pay their taxes & their debts "all together now".... That would be the ABSOLUTE FAIR SCENARIO!!! Right???
Why should it be "fair" for just a certain people... in preference...
Does that NOT BREED DISCRIMINATION???? Its not only about sexes/race/disabilities etc. you know... it can be "discrimination against the middle class taxpayers" or people "making a certain bracket" as well...
So... you are right that it would be "unfair" should it fall on a person holding a mortgage debt to be not let in on the "forgiveness plan" while the college borrowers to be forgiven of a loan with just as much money borrowed.
BUT...
Know again... fact is, country is heading towards.... bankruptcy.
Two wrongs does NOT make a right...
Meaning SAY Obama is in DEBT (he represents USA & its states, very rightful description... he IS our leader after all and is responsible)...
Say he is your dad and is in debt...
Would any good kid want to in debt your dad more or would you try to help him pay off that debt by working (tax money)???
Should Obama as your dad make MORE unwise decision to borrow more money say he is "unemployed" (his economic outlook dim with no prospect of a good paying job)???
***WHERE is the "income" to support this debt for his family (country)????
***even THE POINT for College is to get that "income" right???
Do you think more debt would help make more "income"??
Country = family... what make logical sense???
Mr Obama's plan is putting the cart before the horse!!!
Here's why...
He ought to right the country's economy *first*.
Any other countries would do that... ONLY a strong country with a strong wealthy economy can take care and feed its own people.
(even Chinese ancient theory... "when there is a country then there is a family"... logic and a fact)
Which is to straighten out his country's states (many are bankrupt, and still is... if he cannot even help his states... he cannot help his country and definitely NOT his people).
When he can give money to this states and NOT be more in a hole doing that...
Than he can build upon the economy that can provide the JOBS.
When there is the JOBS abundant...
Then the COLLEGE DEGREE counts and is WORTH the money spent b/c Now there is a job to help pay for each and everyone's degree...
Only then, with the surplus...
He can give via "president's charity" as a benefactor...
To his "Obama's new plan" but paid for by himself thankyou.
P.S. OUR USD$ is based upon "trust" & "promises"... that very same "trust & promises" *YOU* as a borrower promised to take on that debt because *YOU* "BELIEVE" that *YOU* can pay it back somehow... and we have *believed* in *YOU*.
What ever happened to the old fashsioned way of the parents paying for the education if they could afford it? If they couldn't, then the student worked his way through or did without.
There are a LOT of jobs that require only a desire to do good. Many of them pay a lot more than the colllege education required ones. Sooo, maybe an air conditioning tech or a plumber does have a degree, but he gets a good salary, AND HE DOESN'T OWE A STUDENT LOAN.
Think about it. Who gets the most out of life, the guy with money in hs jeans, or the one that is paying off a huge student loan for years??
In a perfect world, people would be able to figure out what they really liked to do, get the training for it and then get paid to do it. Just as not everyone can be a teacher, neither can everyone be a plumber or an air conditioning tech. My eyes glaze over when my engineering husband starts explaining whatever he is fixing and why that will make it work.
However, I think most of us agree that one should not take out massive loans if you don't anticipate a massive salary.
However, I think most of us agree that one should not take out massive loans if you don't anticipate a massive salary.
Or if you are not okay with it taking longer to pay back.
Fact is that not all fields pay massively, but that doesn't make the degree-obtaining process any less costly. I don't see any problem with getting a degree with the thought of becoming a teacher, which pays comparatively modestly. Ideally, one would obtain as much financial aid as possible through sources that do not require repayment. That said, loans will likely be necessary. It obviously will most likely take one longer to repay a loan with a 25K a year job than an 80K a year job. But if the person understands this, is okay with it, and works out their budget and repayment schedule in a way that works for him or herself, where is the problem?
Everyone's idea of what "massive" is is different. To some, say, $25k may be a "massive" amount to borrow for schooling. To others, completely realistic and reasonable. Some people know they'll have their loan paid off in under a decade. Some realize that, given their career preference, it could take longer. It's really up to the individual to assess what they're okay with.
Mixed feelings on this. I have $23,000 in loans. Interest rate is 6.8% (except $5500 at 5.6%). These are all FFELP loans (sallie mae and federal), so I assume they will all get 0.5% knocked off the interest. Intentionally went to state college to keep costs down.
on the other hand, not sure what they mean by "discretionary income". Seems ripe for abuse.
Can see someone taking out $100,000 in student loans to go to University of Phoenix and then getting a $25,000 a year job for the next 20 years because that is all who would hire them, and then only having like $5,000 a year in "discretionary income", thus paying only $500 a year, and $10,000 total over 20 years before the loan is forgiven...
discretionary income is a defined statistic. i forget the calculation, but you can easily find it online.
Mixed feelings on this. I have $23,000 in loans. Interest rate is 6.8% (except $5500 at 5.6%). These are all FFELP loans (sallie mae and federal), so I assume they will all get 0.5% knocked off the interest. Intentionally went to state college to keep costs down.
on the other hand, not sure what they mean by "discretionary income". Seems ripe for abuse.
Can see someone taking out $100,000 in student loans to go to University of Phoenix and then getting a $25,000 a year job for the next 20 years because that is all who would hire them, and then only having like $5,000 a year in "discretionary income", thus paying only $500 a year, and $10,000 total over 20 years before the loan is forgiven...
also, i don't believe it's possible to take out $100,000 of federal loans. these rules don't apply to private loans, so your situation couldn't happen, because there is a limit on how much one can borrow through the federal programs...
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(our money will be worth cents & pennies to the dollar now) so they (we the taxpayers) can pay it off. 
that it would be "unfair" should it fall on a person holding a mortgage debt to be not let in on the "forgiveness plan" while the college borrowers to be forgiven of a loan with just as much money borrowed.
