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hi i stumbled on this documentary today and decided to watch. It was very interesting especially since im a college student myself.
can you guys please and watch so we can have some sort of positive debate about this topic...thanks
Well, probably those who went to college developed the skills one needs to be highly critical of bull doo-doo like that contained in the video.
This is why I liked Logic 101 way back in the day. My prof wrote on the syllabus something like "The purpose of this class is so students develop the skills necessary to pinpoint flaws in logical reasoning processes so you will have the ability to resist being duped by politicians, slick advertisements, and college professors like myself."
Virtually every study shows that college graduates in general earn more than non-college grads.
Let's apply some critical analysis that one could hope to expect from a college graduate.
Is correlation the same as causality? Do the college graduates earn more because they have college degrees, or is it possible that they earn more because they have certain traits (at least slightly-below average intelligence) and virtues of character (sense of personal responsibility, ambition, work ethic, etc.) that mere high school graduates are likely to lack?
Since 17+ million Americans with college degrees are working (presumably, in most cases) involuntarily-out-of-field in jobs that don't require or make use of a college education, in their cases their college degrees and associated student loans really haven't done much for them. See:
Let's apply some critical analysis that one could hope to expect from a college graduate.
Is correlation the same as causality? Do the college graduates earn more because they have college degrees, or is it possible that they earn more because they have certain traits (at least slightly-below average intelligence) and virtues of character (sense of personal responsibility, ambition, work ethic, etc.) that mere high school graduates are likely to lack?
Since 17+ million Americans with college degrees are working (presumably, in most cases) involuntarily-out-of-field in jobs that don't require or make use of a college education, in their cases their college degrees and associated student loans really haven't done much for them. See:
In 2009, there were 56 million people with a bachelor's degree and there are definitely a lot more now. At least 2/3 of people with degrees are working in jobs that require a degree. It's not always just about the traits college graduates tend to have; most good-paying jobs require a degree. To remind everyone, we still have high unemployment. I'm sure the percentage of people utilizing their college education was higher before the recession.
I thought the video was very interesting; although I disagree with about 70% of its conclusions. It was very clear and true showing the outrageous increase of college costs and the government financial aid that serves as a bottomless money pit. But it was way off base in its other conclusions; such as the notion that a college degree is worthless, and that a high school graduate can start off working and make upwards of $30K annually.
The political aurora of the video has a very libertarian feel to it. As a socialist, my personal opinion is that the government shouldn't hesitate to fund college education for people who cannot afford it. However, not everyone should go to college...not even close. Instead financial aid should be limited to students who earned a 3.0 average and higher in high school only. If you are a C student, and you want to try your hand at college....then either you or your family can foot the bill.
It's been many a century since people only went to college to study "pure" subjects. Engineering, nursing, social work, etc have been around for a long time as college majors. I would say higher ed did adapt.
The problem is, professions have evolved so much in the past 10 years that programs like engineering at many schools can't stay on top. The way these jobs are done today are often completely different than what the folks in the programs are being taught. They are coming out with skills that reflect the way the jobs were performed a decade ago. Hence, these students are often not competitive in today's job market. Worse, employers have cut out the expense of bringing them up to speed because there are enough experienced workers available to choose from. Same reason that when people fall out of their profession for 5 or so years, they are often left eating dust as their profession evolves without them.
If I were a student, I would demand a professor who isn't a career academic, but someone who teaches AND works in the profession they are trying to teach. The private sector is very competitive, and it is evolving at the speed of light compared to just 30 years ago. Often, the information is the same, but the way it is utilize and is applied is constantly changing.
I thought the video was very interesting; although I disagree with about 70% of its conclusions. It was very clear and true showing the outrageous increase of college costs and the government financial aid that serves as a bottomless money pit. But it was way off base in its other conclusions; such as the notion that a college degree is worthless, and that a high school graduate can start off working and make upwards of $30K annually.
The political aurora of the video has a very libertarian feel to it. As a socialist, my personal opinion is that the government shouldn't hesitate to fund college education for people who cannot afford it. However, not everyone should go to college...not even close. Instead financial aid should be limited to students who earned a 3.0 average and higher in high school only. If you are a C student, and you want to try your hand at college....then either you or your family can foot the bill.
I sort of agree with you.
1. College tuition had an outrageous increase only because they were outrageously cheap over the last 50 years. The cost has now caught up with historical prices.
2. I absolutely believe the government should assist in funding those with potential. But 3.0 is an absurdly low GPA.
In 2009, there were 56 million people with a bachelor's degree and there are definitely a lot more now. At least 2/3 of people with degrees are working in jobs that require a degree. It's not always just about the traits college graduates tend to have; most good-paying jobs require a degree. To remind everyone, we still have high unemployment. I'm sure the percentage of people utilizing their college education was higher before the recession.
Alot of them (jobs) require jobs, but don't NEED them.... the many grads make it easy...
Alot of them (jobs) require jobs, but don't NEED them.... the many grads make it easy...
It's called credential inflation.
Employers can use possession of a college degree as a proxy for IQ, ambition, and responsibility. So when other people are subsidizing our nation's having an available supply of college graduates, why not make possession of a bachelors degree a hiring requirement? Decades ago many of these same jobs were filled with people who started out of high school and worked their way up the ranks. In reality, perhaps only 10% or 15% of all the jobs that need to be done require or make use of specialized knowledge obtained through college education.
From an economic perspective, credential inflation is a sign of inefficiency--it now takes 4 extra years and a large amount of money to train someone for a job that only used to require a high school diploma.
Employers can use possession of a college degree as a proxy for IQ, ambition, and responsibility. So when other people are subsidizing our nation's having an available supply of college graduates, why not make possession of a bachelors degree a hiring requirement? Decades ago many of these same jobs were filled with people who started out of high school and worked their way up the ranks. In reality, perhaps only 10% or 15% of all the jobs that need to be done require or make use of specialized knowledge obtained through college education.
From an economic perspective, credential inflation is a sign of inefficiency--it now takes 4 extra years and a large amount of money to train someone for a job that only used to require a high school diploma.
You can thank EEO laws for most of this.
If employers had the ability to give tests for a position, without the fear of liability due to disparate impact, they would be more willing to forgo blanket requirements for a position, like having a degree. But a degree at least ensures that a candidate has the minimum ability to train for a position. A degree now days is more about showing ability to train, not being trained in a specific skill.
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