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Why not go to school in a foreign country where there is zero or almost zero tuition instead? If you have debt in the US and do not pay for it you might have BIG troubles ever coming back to visit.
1. What if a person doesn't live in one of those states or can't get into the school?
2. What if the costs of living you have listed are not applicable to the state where the person lives? Compared to where I live, your costs are outrageously low (like, only a small fraction of the real cost of housing and food here).
3. What if they actually can't make 22K a year because they are 18 and without job skills, education or experience, and they live in an area where there are few job opportunities?
4. What if they can't find full-time work making that amount and also a school at that price that offers night classes or other classes that they can work into a full time work schedule?
This is just plain unrealistic.
Plain unrealistic? Are you serious?
You also don't have to go to school fulltime.
What state do you live in?
I just looked up University of Maryland College Park: Annual tuition is 8,900
University of California Santa Barbara: 12,200
CUNY Baruch: 5,500.
Those are states with the highest cost of living and thus should have some of the highest tuitions. 14k is the highest in-state tuition I have found for a state university and that is Illinois-Urbana, likely because the Illinois education system is under water. UMich is only at 13k and Cal-Berkeley is only 15k and those are considered a public Ivies.
I'd like to know what state you live in where a semi-reasonable cheap school is not available.
My point was there are good alternatives in every state: There is also the community college to 4 year university route.
Save up during the 2 years you are CC by living with parents, or renting with friends.
Finish up at a school where tuition is 15ishk for 2 years. so at most you get out with 10-12k in student loans.
30 hours a week making 10 dollars an hour would put you at 16k/yr. Which would only leave you with a deficit of 6k/yr. Keep in mind this is also living on your own. You can usually find cheap alternatives closer to your house, especially a CC for the first 2 years.
Again, you don't have to go to school fulltime. No one ever said you have to finish in 4 years.
Thus my statement that it is not "PLAIN UNREALISTIC" to go to school and take on little to no debt. Most people would just prefer to go the easy way and take out loans for the school of their dreams and you should probably focus on school, so might as well take out loans for living expenses too....
It would be very easy to graduate with under 15k (which is extremely reasonable) in student loans for almost anyone who was willing to adjust their lifestyle and go to a state university.
and...if you can't get into a school the quality of UCSB, UCF, etc. you might want to consider other alternatives, such as a trade.
Last edited by mizzourah2006; 09-25-2012 at 07:16 AM..
Just to set the record straight, I worked my way through college and paid for it by myself. I joined the military, served 20+ years, got a MSEE and MSCS. Worked in the civilian world for another 20 years, ending making six figures. I didn't sit around on my butt, engaging in "critical thinking" about issues that were meaningless. I did engage in critical thinking working in the defense industry and developing next generation equipment which saved lives in Iraq and Afghanistan. You, on the other hand, whine and complain about a situation which you alone are responsible. Why you would go into that large amount of debt, without hope of getting a job in your field (whatever that is), to me, does not show much critical thinking on your part. You can analyze, argue, complain, protest, but it is not an injustice to pay a debt you took it upon yourself to borrow. Suck it up buttercup...stop flapping your jaws and get a second job.
I don't think I've said that I have large amounts of debt or any debt at all. People just make that blind assumption. It's completely irrelevant since the merit of an idea stands on its own regardless of who presents or argues it. All I've said is that I think we need some sort of a bankruptcy option for those who do.
Also, did you read my other posts? Many of those debts were entered into under fraudulent inducement. In many cases colleges published outright fraudulent employment statistics. In a broader context, the government and our society has lied and misled people about the value and importance of higher education.
You express your complete ignorance in the status of our nation's economy when you say "get a second job". Many people cannot even find "first jobs" today, at least not ones that will pay above fast food wages. Even then, not everyone is physically equipped to work more than 50 hours/week. (Some people even have children.) It would be wonderful if everyone could find jobs in fields they trained for as you were able to do. Perhaps in your world of meritocracy, blue skies, rainbows, and butterflies college-education-requiring jobs grow on jobs trees.
You might be great with computers, but that alone doesn't make you a good critical thinker in the area of economics and public policy. Your post reads like that of a self-righteous myopic idiot who only has his own personal anecdotal life story to use as a reference point. Having obtained financial success in the computer field through hard work does not add merit to your arguments nor does it intellectually intimidate anyone.
If you don't want to "engage in critical thinking about issues that [are] meaningless" then what are you doing reading this thread and forum?
In your view, does discussing such issues on an Internet forum preclude one from working hard at a job and at career development? In your view, is it possible for good, ambitious, smart, hard-working worthy people to fail to attain at least middle class success through no real fault of their own, or is it somehow magically possible that all horses in a horse race can win the race? Have you really given thought to these issues, or have you just assumed that people get what they deserve without having given much thought to it (almost like how people come to have their religious beliefs), like an amputation in the place where you mind's wings should have grown?
Also, did you read my other posts? Many of those debts were entered into under fraudulent inducement. In many cases colleges published outright fraudulent employment statistics.
Erm, in all do respect, what made you think you didn't have to take college employment stats with a grain of salt? I'm not trying to call you stupid here, but university is a business. Not saying it's right, but it is. If someone is in law school in deep debt and is saying that they thought they would have a big paying job, they clearly did nothing to research the job market beyond the shiny pamphlet. Of course university is going to lie. I'm pretty sure I heard entering undergrad back in 2007 to not bank on employment statistics.
Do you know anyone who fled the U.S. to get out from under a mountain of student loan debt to begin a new life in a foreign country?
This idea isn't as crazy as it might sound. Let's suppose that for whatever reason, perhaps as a result of fraudulent employment statistics and a lifetime of indoctrination about the economic and employment value of a higher education, you racked up $200,000 of student loan debt (that you can't get rid of in bankruptcy) and you don't have anything to show for it other than a $30,000/year pink collar job (if that).
Might it make sense to immigrate to another country and start a-new as a free person in order to escape a lifetime of poverty and indentured servitude? This is what people did hundreds of years ago; it's why people immigrated to the United States. As crazy as it sounds, our nation, "a nation of immigrants" might itself soon see its own citizens emigrate to other countries in search of freedom and a new life.
Are there any South American countries that might be good candidates for an escape? What nations have people considered? Obviously, they would have to be nations where it wouldn't be too hard to assimilate and where your student loan debt and U.S. citizenship wouldn't follow you. "I renounce my American citizenship and I'm not paying one penny of any alleged student loan debt or other debt. Goodbye."
Bhaal,
You have some points and I think some of us who are a little older and had perhaps an easier experience in the job market may overlook some of what you're saying.
However, the longer you go on to be frank, the crazier all this sounds. Its a ridiculous idea.
I don't think I've said that I have large amounts of debt or any debt at all. People just make that blind assumption. It's completely irrelevant since the merit of an idea stands on its own regardless of who presents or argues it. All I've said is that I think we need some sort of a bankruptcy option for those who do.
Also, did you read my other posts? Many of those debts were entered into under fraudulent inducement. In many cases colleges published outright fraudulent employment statistics. In a broader context, the government and our society has lied and misled people about the value and importance of higher education.
You express your complete ignorance in the status of our nation's economy when you say "get a second job". Many people cannot even find "first jobs" today, at least not ones that will pay above fast food wages. Even then, not everyone is physically equipped to work more than 50 hours/week. (Some people even have children.) It would be wonderful if everyone could find jobs in fields they trained for as you were able to do. Perhaps in your world of meritocracy, blue skies, rainbows, and butterflies college-education-requiring jobs grow on jobs trees.
You might be great with computers, but that alone doesn't make you a good critical thinker in the area of economics and public policy. Your post reads like that of a self-righteous myopic idiot who only has his own personal anecdotal life story to use as a reference point. Having obtained financial success in the computer field through hard work does not add merit to your arguments nor does it intellectually intimidate anyone.
If you don't want to "engage in critical thinking about issues that [are] meaningless" then what are you doing reading this thread and forum?
In your view, does discussing such issues on an Internet forum preclude one from working hard at a job and at career development? In your view, is it possible for good, ambitious, smart, hard-working worthy people to fail to attain at least middle class success through no real fault of their own, or is it somehow magically possible that all horses in a horse race can win the race? Have you really given thought to these issues, or have you just assumed that people get what they deserve without having given much thought to it (almost like how people come to have their religious beliefs), like an amputation in the place where you mind's wings should have grown?
Yes, I have read your posts...fraudulent inducement? You didn't do any due diligence yourself and believe everything you read?
My ignorance of the national economy? I am very aware of the economy and the impact on many people. Our neighbor lost his job, his wife was killed in an accident, his grown daughter's husband left her, and his DIL was laid off. I am definitely aware of the people suffering financially, losing their homes, etc. I am also aware of the people working two $10/hour jobs to get through the crisis, doing the best they can.
My job was not computer based. Maybe you should read more carefully. I am now retired, but was in aviation engineering.
So to sum up the answer to your latest babble, in most cases being on this forum is educational and helpful. In your case this thread is totally a waste of time. You babble, rant, rave and call me names because I don't agree with you. Because I made a success of myself and my life, you call me a self righteous myopic idiot. All the hours you waste babbling on and on could be better served looking for a job.
Best of luck in your search for a new country. You're right, I have wasted way too much time on stupidity.
Why not go to school in a foreign country where there is zero or almost zero tuition instead?
That is true.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob702
If you have debt in the US and do not pay for it you might have BIG troubles ever coming back to visit.
Lol, no. Defaulting on debt is not a crime. You won't go to jail for that. You will not denied entry because you defaulted on some debt. And no, they also won't jail you at the airport. You're thinking of warrants.
Why not go to school in a foreign country where there is zero or almost zero tuition instead? If you have debt in the US and do not pay for it you might have BIG troubles ever coming back to visit.
What foreign countries have reputable as well as low to zero cost degree programs for foreigners?
How does an individual acquire $200,000 worth of student loan debt? Are you a doctor from Harvard? LOL
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