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I think the problem is that far more people are pursuing liberal arts degrees with no thought whatsoever on how to translate that degree into a job. Any job you can do with a STEM degree, you can do with a liberal arts degree (but the opposite is not true). That includes jobs that require a PE or medical license.
It is no more difficult to translate a liberal arts degree into a job than a STEM degree (I would actually say it is normally much easier), but STEM students and STEM departments are much more focused on the career aspects of the degree: taking appropriate tests, getting internships, developing work experience, turning your resume into a strong marketing document, than other departments.
Or in other words, I suspect a Julliard grad in piano performance and pedagogy is far more employable and more likely to be employed than most engineering grads, but that is because of the career preparation that Julliard gives you.
Really? Please clarify because I am having a hard time understanding how based on my reading of the above. Which degrees are you comparing in the liberal arts and which in STEM? For what jobs? STEM degrees by nature are highly technical and specialized. I fail to see how someone with any LA degree can perform the same job required of STEM majors. I understand that the biological sciences are often housed under the LA umbrella, but note that this article specifies those in the humanities.
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Originally Posted by NyWriterdude
That C sociology student has a mind of his/her own. Perhaps that person has no interest in building something, maintaining something, or monitoring something with a high level of expertise. Perhaps that C sociology student will work as a bartender or waiter.)
And that is fine. But that C sociology student should not be taking out massive loans for their degree if they are unable to use that degree to pay back those loans. Nor should they then complain that their degree does not provide them with an unrealistic salary they are somehow entitled to because they went to college and "got a degree". We are here talking about the average student population - not the outliers. Witness our current student loan debacle.
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Originally Posted by NyWriterdude
No A sociology student needs to learn how to build something, maintain something, or monitor something.
Academia is confusing for blue collar people, because it obviously is nowhere near enough to just get a degree and boom, you got a miracle job.
Again, no they don't need to do those things. But they should be well aware of why they are seeking those degrees, what they hope to get out of it, and how that fits into their immediate life/work goals post-graduation. These are pragmatic considerations for any college student. And it seems many need good counseling from a variety of sources in order to optimize their education, and better align it with realistic goals.
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Originally Posted by NyWriterdude
Even there the Republicans were talking about cutting funding too, but not eliminating those departments at those state schools. So for anyone who wants to study humanities at the state schools, they will just have to pay MORE for it. But they are entitled to do that if they want to.
You can't make people study something they don't want to, no matter how much you fund it as they can always reject the funding and pay for what they want to study or not study at all.
And not everyone who doesn't want to go out for an academic, professional, or artistic careers wants to do the trades. There's office work, there's retail, there's restaurant/bar/hotel work, there's sales, there's customer service, etc.
See my above replies.
I agree shifting funding away from the humanities to STEM is not the cure-all solution for the problems they are trying to address. It seems to be a knee-jerk reaction to current situations in education regarding student loans and better alignment of degrees granted to current job needs. Whether a sizable proportion of students choosing these humanities degrees would somehow now opt for a STEM one, and even then, whether they have the aptitude and skills needed to succeed in that field post-graduation is another story. As is whether some of those students may not be better served by obtaining vocational training instead of spending large sums for a terminal undergrad degree.
LPN's are nurses with associates degrees. RN's have bachelor degrees. There's often a difference between the duties of the two. To get a RN license you must have a bachelor's DEGREE.
As far as the secretarial/clerical jobs, agreed. All they generally need is a high school diploma or associates degree.
That's not true. You can become an RN with an associate's. While I have a previous bachelor's degree (in liberal arts), my nursing degree is an ASN. APRNs and CRNAs are now going to be doctorate programs which is ridiculous.
There was no dichotomy in the past. A man with a bachelor's degree was expected to be as well versed in Plato as in Galileo.
Nor was there an expectation everyone could or should reach that level.
There was less to learn "back then". Astronomy has increased a great deal since Galileo's time.
I'm not sure what you're trying to say with that last sentence. Is this another rendition of the "we shouldn't encourage everyone to go to college" meme? First off, not everyone is encouraged to go to college. The mantra is "college or career" ready. Secondly, why shouldn't people be encouraged to go as far as they can/want to in pursuit of knowledge?
I agree shifting funding away from the humanities to STEM is not the cure-all solution for the problems they are trying to address. It seems to be a knee-jerk reaction to current situations in education regarding student loans and better alignment of degrees granted to current job needs.
+1
If the issue is getting students into higher demand career fields, STEM vs. non-STEM is a STUPID way to do it. There are plenty of STEM majors (especially in the sciences, math and technology) where a terminal bachelors degree has less earning potential than a humanities field such as government or economics. And what about the high-demand non-STEM career fields such as accounting or nursing?
How much funding are states really providing to non-STEM students anyway? Student loans and grants are mostly handed out at the federal level. If schools are providing their own scholarships, they are usually funded out of the school's endowment, not taxpayer funds, and are only going to a few students so this is hardly causing an issue. If we are talking about spending on campus, building and running scientific research and engineering labs are much, much more expensive than just providing a basic classroom for an english or history class.
If you took away government support for non-STEM fields, you would end up with these fields being limited to people with wealthy parents, while the middle class and below would be limited to the STEM fields, regardless of their aptitude or interests. I'm not sure it is particularly good for society to limit the options for middle class and below students more than they already are.
I'm not opposed to offering incentives to encourage students who have the aptitude to pursue fields like engineering, nor am I opposed to linking the amount of loan money available to the reasonable earning prospects for someone from the school/major. But the solution isn't having the government pick what degrees are more worthy than others. The solution is providing students and parents real information about the job and earning prospects of various degree options for each school. People will be much more likely to make rational decisions if they have this info. Too many people today just believe the "get any degree" advice that may have worked a generation ago but is no longer relevant, especially given rising costs in higher ed.
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