Value of college and graduate degrees declines (bachelors, skills, bachelor degree)
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
I think one of the most compelling cases comes from Taiwan, where a huge spike in college enrollment has led to a ~25% dip in graduate wages. The graph below comes from the wonderfully titled, “Massification of Higher Education in Taiwan: Shifting Pressure from Admission to Employment,” published in the Journal of Higher Education Policy in 2015 (the “x”-dotted line shows increasing enrollment and the triangle-dotted line represent decreasing college-grad wages).
Portugal and Japan have experienced similar downward wage pressure from an unnatural injection of college graduates into the economy.
The result, already hitting Americans, is a steady and large increase in the number of college graduates working minimum wage jobs. New York is about to see a lot of Starbucks baristas that can write a 25-page term paper but can’t escape their parents’ house.
A better alternative that I think needs exploring is the use of apprenticeships. In Switzerland, a majority of students begin working in high-skilled jobs while attending the equivalent of junior college part-time.Many have zero debt and go on to prestigious occupations in the tech and pharmaceutical industry.
So impressed by the Swiss model, the Governor of Colorado has recently spearheaded a statewide initiative to adapt much of their system in a new vocational path for their students.
The Swiss model provides good evidence that it’s possible for millions of students to all work and learn at the same time. Apprenticeships place employers in the curriculum driver's seat; students only attend classes in math, science, and communication that businesses know will help their future employees perform better on the job.
There’s simply no need for students to spend four years outside of the real world at a giant party funded by taxes and debt.
Average salaries for holders of bachelor’s and master’s degrees dropped in 2009, according to the 1111 Job Bank’s survey released Feb. 8. The average monthly pay for a person with a master’s was NT$38,939 (US$1,215), down 9.5 percent from NT$43,024 in 2008, or NT$4,085, while the starting salary for a university graduate averaged NT$27,150, compared to NT$28,861 the year before, a reduction of over NT$1,000, or 5.93 percent. At the same time, the latest figures from the Directorate-General of Budget, Accounting and Statistics show that in 2009 unemployment among the college-educated and above increased 1.2 percentage points over 2008. Taken together, these figures illustrate how the value of college and graduate degrees is steadily decreasing.
This follows what I've argued for a long time: The value of a college degree is driven by the market. When few people had a degree, then those with degrees made significantly more than those without. The value was driven by the need for those skills vs the number of people with them. The more people with degrees, the less value they have. If everyone had a college degree, we'd have college degreed burger flippers.
Of course you can't say that or you're labeled "anti education."
This follows what I've argued for a long time: The value of a college degree is driven by the market. When few people had a degree, then those with degrees made significantly more than those without. The value was driven by the need for those skills vs the number of people with them. The more people with degrees, the less value they have. If everyone had a college degree, we'd have college degreed burger flippers.
Of course you can't say that or you're labeled "anti education."
This is only if you measure market value by wage.
If you measure it by academic productivity, it doesn't hold true at all. In fact, the market value for unique research is quite high, even today.
Average salaries for holders of bachelor’s and master’s degrees dropped in 2009
2009 was the height of the great recession. Massive layoffs took place and this caused a mass influx of job seekers and a low supply of available jobs. People took jobs for lower salaries rather than have no job. Some people couldn't find jobs at all for awhile - regardless if they were willing to take a lower salary.This dire situation applied for people with and without degrees.
That was ten years ago and the great recessions has ended.
This follows what I've argued for a long time: The value of a college degree is driven by the market. When few people had a degree, then those with degrees made significantly more than those without. The value was driven by the need for those skills vs the number of people with them. The more people with degrees, the less value they have. If everyone had a college degree, we'd have college degreed burger flippers.
Of course you can't say that or you're labeled "anti education."
It certainly does not mean that people should stick with HS Diplomas. Society EXPECTS THAT.
2009 was the height of the great recession. Massive layoffs took place and this caused a mass influx of job seekers and a low supply of available jobs. People took jobs for lower salaries rather than have no job. Some people couldn't find jobs at all for awhile - regardless if they were willing to take a lower salary.This dire situation applied for people with and without degrees.
That was ten years ago and the great recessions has ended.
wages have been dropping for years before the 2008 recession
It certainly does not mean that people should stick with HS Diplomas. Society EXPECTS THAT.
NOW society EXPECTS a bachelors. Deal with it.
why are you ignoring the fact that not everybody cannot get a bachelor degree? should people in the trades and vocational skills pushed into university?
If you measure it by academic productivity, it doesn't hold true at all. In fact, the market value for unique research is quite high, even today.
Because your market value is measured by what you are paid to do whatever specific job you are hired to do. Doesn't matter if you have a PhD, if you are hired to make burgers, you get paid what burger makers get paid.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sheena12
It certainly does not mean that people should stick with HS Diplomas. Society EXPECTS THAT.
NOW society EXPECTS a bachelors. Deal with it.
Actually I don't have to deal with anything. But you will. It's the people coming along and their families and eventually the taxpayers who will have to deal with it. If college costs exceed the expected return because wages are depressed, then who will pay for that bachelors? Who will pay for over expanded college systems that can't handle the student load, or worse, lack there of? Buildings and infrastructure cost money. Someone has to pay for it.
None of which discusses the trades. There are already shortages of skilled trades in many areas. Pushing kids into college when they would be better served by going into a trade isn't a value add to society; it's a net cost.
As it should. Man-hating, lint rolling, and gender studies degrees don't have much value in the marketplace. There are only a handful of majors that are really cranking out good gainful employment opportunities. The rest are hit or miss at best, with many of those having absolutely no value in the real-world. Additionally, many graduate degrees are a complete waste of time. Especially if you are not gainfully employed at the time you are completing the graduate degree (as in you are currently unemployed but hoping a graduate degree will secure gainful employment for you).
All of these students pursuing these worthless degrees would be much better off learning a marketable trade. But the scam of "higher education" these days (taught by many who have no real-world experience outside of academia) scoffs at the idea of trade skills. Hey, but keep racking up that debt and working at Starbucks!
why are you ignoring the fact that not everybody cannot get a bachelor degree? should people in the trades and vocational skills pushed into university?
That's not what this is about. It's about saying "Hey, we can't start limiting the people who are 'allowed' to go to college because college degrees are more commonplace and hence less of a novelty."
Quote:
Originally Posted by heart84
As it should. Man-hating, lint rolling, and gender studies degrees don't have much value in the marketplace. There are only a handful of majors that are really cranking out good gainful employment opportunities. The rest are hit or miss at best, with many of those having absolutely no value in the real-world. Additionally, many graduate degrees are a complete waste of time. Especially if you are not gainfully employed at the time you are completing the graduate degree (as in you are currently unemployed but hoping a graduate degree will secure gainful employment for you).
All of these students pursuing these worthless degrees would be much better off learning a marketable trade. But the scam of "higher education" these days (taught by many who have no real-world experience outside of academia) scoffs at the idea of trade skills. Hey, but keep racking up that debt and working at Starbucks!
Not everyone who gets one of the more useless degrees should go into trade, though it's true they probably should have chosen a different major (and shame on whoever knew them, knew what they chose, and didn't bring this up at the time). But, when you're a kid, you naively think that if they offer a course of study, it must be for a reason and it must be good for something. Maybe Creative Writing majors need to go the way of the dodo. (You would think this would be in colleges' best interests, anyway; lower post-graduation unemployment rates.)
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
