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Your school may be the best place for you, but to somehow say that Temple is better than Penn even though the rankings and all other indicators say otherwise is just foolish. I'm not saying Temple is terrible, or that Cal Poly is terrible,
Where did JHG722 say that Temple was better the Penn?
It sure sounds like you are
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Originally Posted by leftydan6
Penn is clearly better than Temple, and anyone who says otherwise is just fooling themselves. Look at the list of notable alumni from Temple and the list from Penn. There is no comparison. While Temple is mostly athletes and musicians (both professions that have little to do with education and a lot to do with talent) Penn is full of Nobel Prize winners and senators.
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Originally Posted by leftydan6
Most of the top students would be disappointed if Cal Poly was their only choice.
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Originally Posted by leftydan6
Just because you go to an inferior school doesn't mean that it's automatically better. The better and smarter students all go to better schools, they then get better jobs, donate more money to the school and allow it to have far better programs
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Originally Posted by leftydan6
There is a reason why it's easier to get into, it's less desireable and has less to offer than an Ivy League school or another highly ranked one.
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Originally Posted by leftydan6
No, Cal Tech IS a very good school, Cal Poly is an ordinary school for those who can't get into the upper tier ones. The kids I knew who went to Cal Poly were not the ones who were considered "smart kids", in fact, most of them were dumb jock types that I lifted weights with.
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Originally Posted by leftydan6
How could you possibly claim that Temple offers a better education than Stanford, Emory, Northwestern or Penn?
JHG722 never said this. He said that he is receiving the equivalent education that he was getting at the top 60 school that he transferred from. He said that it was a good school, but he did not claim that it was better then any top tier school.
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Originally Posted by leftydan6
Looking at those numbers, how can you say that Temple gets more money from alums than higher ranked schools?
Once again....it's not that Temple gets MORE money, but that Temple does get generous donations from alumni.
Well, there are about 10 people from Ivys and other top-10 schools like Duke and Stanford. And none from Temple or CalPoly. But the Fortune list is an anomaly of how the majority of people are. They are the truly special, one in 1,000,000 types. However, the endowments at the top schools are mountains bigger than at the lower schools. Penn is clearly better than Temple, and anyone who says otherwise is just fooling themselves. Look at the list of notable alumni from Temple and the list from Penn. There is no comparison. While Temple is mostly athletes and musicians (both professions that have little to do with education and a lot to do with talent) Penn is full of Nobel Prize winners and senators.
When you're talking about "which college is the best" you HAVE to be elitist, that's the very reason for the debate. I chose to go to a school ranked in the 40s because I got a baseball scholarship to play for a team ranked #5 nationally. My other choice, a school ranked #9, offered me a spot on the football and baseball teams but could not offer money as it was a DIII school. I chose to go to the inferior school because of the money and the baseball. The education I received was inferior because the school was inferior, but I got to play on a baseball team that went to the College World Series and experienced life in a vibrant city for 3.5 years. Your school may be the best place for you, but to somehow say that Temple is better than Penn even though the rankings and all other indicators say otherwise is just foolish. I'm not saying Temple is terrible, or that Cal Poly is terrible, cause only about 25% of people even get a Bachelors in this country. But in terms of the National Universities taken as a whole, it's rather average, if not slightly above average. Most of the top students would be disappointed if Cal Poly was their only choice.
Temple University — Endowment: $196.2 Million (Ranked in the secondary tiers)
Emory University — Endowment: US $5 Billion (Ranked in the teens)
Tulane University — Endowment: US $955 Million (Ranked between 45-55)
Stanford University — Endowment: US $15.2 Billion (Ranked in top 5)
Vanderbilt University — Endowment: US$2.92 Billion (Ranked in the 20s)
Looking at those numbers, how can you say that Temple gets more money from alums than higher ranked schools?
I don't mean to pick on you, but you're really off base. I've attended four schools: The University of Alabama, Tulane, Harvard, and the University of Pennsylvania.
I can tell you without a doubt that the teaching at Alabama, Tulane, and Harvard were practically the same. I would have to say because I studied math and science I preferred Alabama and Tulane over Harvard because I was taught by professors, not grad students.
Success is determined by the work ethic of a person, not the school he or she attended.
I had the chance to attend Harvard when I graduated from high school, but I don't think I would be in a better position than I am in now.
Also, you're comparing Temple (which is a state school) to schools with a complete different set of circumstances. For instance, Emory, the endowment there is mostly from Coca-Cola, not alumni. Have you ever heard of Asa Candler? A few years ago, Emory did not have a 5 billion dollar endowment, I think it received a boost when one of the Woodruff's died. The Candler's and Woodruff's donated huge sums to Emory. Even the business school was built with Coke money and is named after a former CEO, Roberto Goizeuta.
Also, the Centers for Disease Control is on the Emory campus and it brings a lot of funding to the school and the medical school, which happens to be the major medical school in the state of Georgia.
My partner and I both went to Penn for graduate education (him, post med school and I went for a masters in education) but we donate mostly to Tulane and he donates to the University of Georgia.
My father is the same way. He went to med school at Harvard, but he mostly donates to the University of Alabama because he got his undegrad degree from there.
Another thing to keep in mind when comparing those students you may have observed in both classes at Temple (or another large urban public) and an Ivy is that their missions are totally divergent. For example (brief history lesson here) Temple was founded by Russell Conwell who gave a speech entitled "Acres of Diamonds" about searching the world over only to return home and find diamonds in his back yard...The mission of Temple is to welcome many with an emphasis on local, urban and at times underserved populations, knowing full well that the published stats will not compare to an Ivy who frankly have the luxury of picking the cream of the crop.
Temple then provides a quality education (including merit aid) and has changed the lives of thousands for generations to come. The professional fields of law, medicine, and dentistry in the NY,NJ, PA are replete with Temple grads who in many cases were the first of their family to even go to college.
Yes, Wharton is a great B-school! Donald Trumps kids went there, but I dare say Donald's kids would have done fine where ever they went!
Another thing to keep in mind when comparing those students you may have observed in both classes at Temple (or another large urban public) and an Ivy is that their missions are totally divergent. For example (brief history lesson here) Temple was founded by Russell Conwell who gave a speech entitled "Acres of Diamonds" about searching the world over only to return home and find diamonds in his back yard...The mission of Temple is to welcome many with an emphasis on local, urban and at times underserved populations, knowing full well that the published stats will not compare to an Ivy who frankly have the luxury of picking the cream of the crop.
Temple then provides a quality education (including merit aid) and has changed the lives of thousands for generations to come. The professional fields of law, medicine, and dentistry in the NY,NJ, PA are replete with Temple grads who in many cases were the first of their family to even go to college.
Yes, Wharton is a great B-school! Donald Trumps kids went there, but I dare say Donald's kids would have done fine where ever they went!
Exactly, and while Conwell's initial mission to educate anyone who wanted to be educated was noble and great, the school is straying away from that, and thus getting more and more competitive and attracting many top students.
Exactly, and while Conwell's initial mission to educate anyone who wanted to be educated was noble and great, the school is straying away from that, and thus getting more and more competitive and attracting many top students.
I don't think the two are mutually exclusive. The push to attract more top students began in the 80's with more merit aid (called Outstanding Achievement Scholars or OAS back then) and featured Bill Cosby ads with the stats of some of those students i.e. valedictorian, 1500 on SAT could have gone anywhere, she chose Temple!
I myself turned down Penn, was in the running for a scholarship there, chose Temple and had as my roommate an emancipated minor from West Philly, on her own since 16, on foodstamps and with a life history that opened the eyes of this middle class kid from the boonies. And i never regretted it once!
Speaking of rankings (and tiers) is there a source for what defines a tier? Something objective that makes a school first tier, second tier, or third tier?
Because quite frankly as we begin our search for our junior year daughter, I am surprised at some schools that are listed as 1 or 2nd tier compared to some that are third. The above mentioned Temple University for example that is a research based institution that has a lot to offer almost anyone willing to reach out, grab it, and challenge themselves!
The tier business is explained in the US News College Guide.
They clearly don't teach reading comprehension at UCI/UCSB, whichever Mr. leftydan attended...
Actually, I went to Tulane, chose it (even though it had a lower USN&W Ranking) over Emory because I was offered a scholarship and the baseball team was in the top-5 of Division 1.
That being said, I was disappointed with the quality of students at Tulane. But there was no comparing the students or the teachers to those at LSU. Same would go for Penn/Temple or UCSD/SDSU. While there may be some cases where you'd get a better education at the lesser school, but in most cases your chances for a good education and successful career are much better at the superior school. That's not to say that going to a lower ranked school is a guarantee at a lesser life than going to a higher ranked school. But think about it, you have two economics majors applying for the same job. Both have identical experience and are the same in every possible way except for their alma matter. One went to Princeton and the other went to Temple. Nine times out of ten, the Princeton grad will get the job because of the reputation it holds. So while the teachers are DEFINITELY better at random small liberal arts colleges than at major top-tier universities, the reputation of the top schools will attract the top students, which in turn will attract the top employers, which will in turn generate the most money for the school. Emory may have gotten most of its money from Coke and the CDC, but that money still funds a very excellent school with programs that are not available at many other universities.
I can understand thinking a smaller school would be better than Harvard, Emory and Tulane, but Alabama? Really? I went to that campus and it didn't really seem like the best learning enviroment of those four.
Actually, I went to Tulane, chose it (even though it had a lower USN&W Ranking) over Emory because I was offered a scholarship and the baseball team was in the top-5 of Division 1.
That being said, I was disappointed with the quality of students at Tulane. But there was no comparing the students or the teachers to those at LSU. Same would go for Penn/Temple or UCSD/SDSU. While there may be some cases where you'd get a better education at the lesser school, but in most cases your chances for a good education and successful career are much better at the superior school. That's not to say that going to a lower ranked school is a guarantee at a lesser life than going to a higher ranked school. But think about it, you have two economics majors applying for the same job. Both have identical experience and are the same in every possible way except for their alma matter. One went to Princeton and the other went to Temple. Nine times out of ten, the Princeton grad will get the job because of the reputation it holds. So while the teachers are DEFINITELY better at random small liberal arts colleges than at major top-tier universities, the reputation of the top schools will attract the top students, which in turn will attract the top employers, which will in turn generate the most money for the school. Emory may have gotten most of its money from Coke and the CDC, but that money still funds a very excellent school with programs that are not available at many other universities.
I can understand thinking a smaller school would be better than Harvard, Emory and Tulane, but Alabama? Really? I went to that campus and it didn't really seem like the best learning enviroment of those four.
It also doesn't help that Economics isn't our specialty, however, if a Princeton and Temple grad apply for a job in accounting, international business, risk management, etc., 9 times out of 10 the Temple grad will get the job.
It also doesn't help that Economics isn't our specialty, however, if a Princeton and Temple grad apply for a job in accounting, international business, risk management, etc., 9 times out of 10 the Temple grad will get the job.
It's 'Alma Mater', btw...
Okay, so I made a typo...but seriously, you can't honestly be saying that Temple has a better rep in accounting or international business than Princeton. It's cool to have pride in your school, but you really don't need to make wild claims. Every school has something to offer everyone, and people will make the best out of what they can get. But when it comes to reputation and the ability to get a job out of college, you can't compare an Ivy league school to a middle of the pack public school...you just can't. Not even in Philly will anyone who is not closely related to Temple say that they'd choose a Temple grad over a Princeton grad for the same job. If nothing else, the fact that top firms recruit only at top schools (my father's company would not hire anyone fresh out of school unless they come from the Harvard, Wharton or Stanford business schools) and that leaves only mediocre jobs to be fought out for by the rest. Being a mediocre student at Stanford will still get you a lot of options for the future, being mediocre at Temple allows you to take a crappy cubicle job and work your way up.
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