Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
.
If colleges don't get with the program and offer what individuals and employers are demanding they will find themselves struggling for existence.
What employers are demanding changes all the time as a result a career oriented education is going to be transitional at best. Colleges should be focusing on creating people with well rounded educations that can adapt to a rapidly changing world.
What employers are demanding changes all the time as a result a career oriented education is going to be transitional at best. Colleges should be focusing on creating people with well rounded educations that can adapt to a rapidly changing world.
What employers want doesn't change too much. They want scientists who are well versed in the latest techniques, accountants familiar with the latest laws and practices, engineers, economists, doctors.
They do not want individuals who spent 4 years studying esoteric subjects such as philosophy, art history, African/Asian/Hispanic American studies that are not relevant to their business needs or goals. It is OK to take a few courses in this area for enrichment, but the focus should be on practical knowledge.
If you are going towards a position that could make you happy then look around and see what you enjoy doing. The field of Healtcare seems to be doing good and the future looks bright.
My neighbors wife and her daughter are both RN's and their problem is not finding enough work it is trying to get out of working 6-7 days a week. The mom works 5 days a week 11-12 hours a day bringing in $75,000 + and the daughter has her Masters and bringing in over $95,000. WOW.... The dad is a physical therapist and works too but he is a liberal. hahahahaha
Of course it does as the underlying technology changes all the time. 30 years ago there were hardly any jobs in IT, now there are millions. IT made a number of jobs entirely obsolete and technology today is doing the same thing.
Science, Engineering, etc jobs are not immune to creative destruction, as artificial intelligence and computing become more powerful many of the jobs in these industries can either be eliminated are at the very least made much more productive.
But science education, especially at the top universities, is not career oriented. And many kids complain about it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MSchemist80
They do not want individuals who spent 4 years studying esoteric subjects such as philosophy, art history, African/Asian/Hispanic American studies that are not relevant to their business needs or goals.
Are you under the impression that all businesses have the same needs and goals? I'd much rather hire a Philosophy student over a Business, Engineering, etc student. They are much more versatile. I would not mind hiring a Hispanic studies major as I think the Hispanic market (both in the US and outside) has huge potential and not being Hispanic I don't really understand it. Wold love to have someone like that involved in marketing.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MSchemist80
It is OK to take a few courses in this area for enrichment, but the focus should be on practical knowledge.
I consider Philosophy rather practical and in fact so does the market place. Philosophy majors generate a higher median income than many Science majors (including chemists...). In fact the only science that does better in Physics:
Contrary to what you seem to think, many jobs require general purpose reasoning skills rather than concrete knowledge about molecules, cells, building, etc.
I consider Philosophy rather practical and in fact so does the market place. Philosophy majors generate a higher median income than many Science majors (including chemists...). In fact the only science that does better in Physics:
Contrary to what you seem to think, many jobs require general purpose reasoning skills rather than concrete knowledge about molecules, cells, building, etc.
That link does not give the unemployment rate of Philosophy majors. Just because the starting median salary of Philosophy majors is $39,900, doesn't mean that many Philosophy majors are employed. I can say that professional baseball is the best field to go to, since the minimum MLB salary is $400K / year, but that doesn't mean that all aspiring ballplayers make it.
In addition, I don't see how an engineering major, a computer science major, or a chemistry major doesn't have general purpose reasoning skills. Is Philosophy the only major that teaches general purpose reasoning skills?
That link does not give the unemployment rate of Philosophy majors.
Ugh this again, the issue of unemployment rate is implicitly dealt with as the vast majority of people can't survive without some sort of employment (even if that means Starbucks). What is ironic, is that you don't bring up the same issue when people talking about Engineering, Finance, etc.
Anyhow, surveys of graduates shows a bit higher than average unemployment rate. For example:
I can say that professional baseball is the best field to go to, since the minimum MLB salary is $400K / year, but that doesn't mean that all aspiring ballplayers make it.
There is no analogy here. Baseball player is a career, not a degree. The surveys of graduates includes all jobs even if its minimum wage and if a lot of graduates have these sorts of jobs it will decrease the median salary.
Quote:
Originally Posted by NYCAnalyst
Is Philosophy the only major that teaches general purpose reasoning skills?
Pretty much, yes. Engineering, Chemistry, etc all tend to teach domain specific skills. Of course, the top programs tend to offer a bit boarder education than mid and low ranking programs. But its still domain specific.
Regardless a major in Philosophy, especially with an emphasis on formal philosophy, provides an excellent foundation for a number of careers that do not require specific technical knowledge.
Ugh this again, the issue of unemployment rate is implicitly dealt with as the vast majority of people can't survive without some sort of employment (even if that means Starbucks). What is ironic, is that you don't bring up the same issue when people talking about Engineering, Finance, etc.
Anyhow, surveys of graduates shows a bit higher than average unemployment rate. For example:
There is no analogy here. Baseball player is a career, not a degree. The surveys of graduates includes all jobs even if its minimum wage and if a lot of graduates have these sorts of jobs it will decrease the median salary.
Pretty much, yes. Engineering, Chemistry, etc all tend to teach domain specific skills. Of course, the top programs tend to offer a bit boarder education than mid and low ranking programs. But its still domain specific.
Regardless a major in Philosophy, especially with an emphasis on formal philosophy, provides an excellent foundation for a number of careers that do not require specific technical knowledge.
Again, your stats are skewed and incorrect. The studentsreview data has the problem of selection bias. This is based off of self-reported survey data. Some of this data is reported from people who graduated in the 70s, and most of it was not reported recently - the site was founded in 2000, and there is no way to see when the individual surveys were completed. The requirements for entry-level jobs have changed dramatically since then.
The Payscale surveys of graduates DO NOT INCLUDE all jobs even if its minimum wage, contrary to what you said. If you actually took 5 seconds to read the webpage, you would notice that the data is based upon PayScale Salary Survey data, NOT all jobs, including Starbucks or McDonalds jobs. Again, the data is self-selected. Who takes these surveys? I never took a survey for this website, even when I started my first job.
While a major in Philosophy can lead to a number of careers that do not require specific technical knowledge, there is no reason to believe that someone who majored in Math or Chemistry can't do the job just as well, or better.
If someone wants to look at a predictor for starting and mid-career salary, the school that one attended is a much better predictor than whatever major someone chose.
Again, your stats are skewed and incorrect. The studentsreview data has the problem of selection bias.
You have no idea if they are incorrect or not. Doing surveys like this is pretty much the only way to get generate these statistics. Your argument seems to be "since you can't get definitive data, then the unemployment rate must be bad". Your argument applies equally to all majors, yet you only apply it to some due to your underlying bias.
Quote:
Originally Posted by NYCAnalyst
The Payscale surveys of graduates DO NOT INCLUDE all jobs even if its minimum wage, contrary to what you said.
I never said it includes "all jobs", rather I said "The surveys of graduates includes all jobs even if its minimum wage". That is to say, the surveys are looking at the entire income scale of people with degree X (and yes its survey based). The unemployment rate is tacitly included as again the vast majority of people can't survive without working in some capacity.
Quote:
Originally Posted by NYCAnalyst
there is no reason to believe that someone who majored in Math or Chemistry can't do the job just as well, or better.
Of course there is, these people were not trained in the same things a Philosophy major was trained in. Though, Mathematics (especially pure) is rather similar to Philosophy. Philosophy is just more general.
A degree in Mathematics is a lot like a degree in Philosophy, both focus on general reasoning and analytic skills rather than more concrete domain knowledge. Where as degrees in Engineering focus almost entirely on domain knowledge. Science degrees are somewhere in the middle. All are important in their own ways.
All I know is when I read the job ads I see tons of jobs that call for people with a degree in accounting, engineering, nursing, computer science. I do not see very many, if any, for a degree in philosophy or art history.
All I know is when I read the job ads I see tons of jobs that call for people with a degree in accounting, engineering, nursing, computer science. I do not see very many, if any, for a degree in philosophy or art history.
Philosophy is not a career oriented major, of course you are not going to see jobs explicitly calling for it. You won't see many jobs explicitly calling for Mathematics majors either. You're going to see jobs requiring particular skills which can often be easily obtained by someone with a Philosophy degree.
Obviously someone with a Philosophy degree or something similar is not going to get a job in something degree specified like Nursing, but there are plenty of jobs that are not degree specified.
Its odd how career focused people have become lately, I don't think its going to end well.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
