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Old 03-31-2010, 09:36 PM
 
Location: Houston
3,567 posts, read 1,608,290 times
Reputation: 931
Quote:
Originally Posted by K-Luv View Post
You either have free speech or you don't, including the right to hate speech and other unsavory topics. I find it funny that many lefties want to ban hate speech and righties want to ban any speech they deem unAmerican (which they seem to make up as they go), but BOTH sides claim to support and hide behind the First Amendment.

Anyways, at UCB, yes. Anyone and everyone seems to hold a rally there. At other colleges? I doubt it.

I think that you are confusing Liberal Arts College with the particular political view. They are completely different.
So I guess you would love Hitler's speeches...
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Old 03-31-2010, 09:38 PM
 
Location: Earth
3,456 posts, read 4,753,401 times
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There's free speech as long as you agree with the teacher.
Quite frankly, in terms of censorship, liberals are not very different from conservatives.
I agree with the poster that stated that the question should be, "Is there free speech?", to which I would answer, "No"; not even in academia, although they love to think so.
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Old 03-31-2010, 11:53 PM
 
2,981 posts, read 3,594,127 times
Reputation: 3821
Quote:
Originally Posted by K-Luv View Post
You either have free speech or you don't, including the right to hate speech and other unsavory topics. I find it funny that many lefties want to ban hate speech and righties want to ban any speech they deem unAmerican (which they seem to make up as they go), but BOTH sides claim to support and hide behind the First Amendment.

Anyways, at UCB, yes. Anyone and everyone seems to hold a rally there. At other colleges? I doubt it.

I think that you are confusing Liberal Arts College with the particular political view. They are completely different.

It is amazing the number of people who do not know what liberal arts are, even students who major in liberal arts.
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Old 04-01-2010, 01:02 AM
 
Location: California
25,337 posts, read 16,313,845 times
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Quote:
You either have free speech or you don't, including the right to hate speech and other unsavory topics
.
Close. Free speach means you can state your opinions without reprocussions from an oppressive government. Not that you can say/do whatever you want, whenever you want, wherever you want without reprocussions from whoever you are addressing.

I guess I'm not understanding the OP or what "free speech" isn't being allowed. Knowing that might shed some light here.
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Old 04-01-2010, 05:49 AM
 
Location: Maryland not Murlin
7,403 posts, read 14,196,764 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bnepler View Post
Maybe it should progressive?
Well, most (all?) colleges tend to be steeped in tradition and have a knack for doing the same 'ol same 'ol year after year, which is the opposite of being progressive. In reality, they are fairly conservative in nature.

Quote:
Originally Posted by XodoX View Post
So I guess you would love Hitler's speeches...
This is an ignorant conclusion to draw from my post. You could also deduce that I would love Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr's speeches, too, if you want to use that sort of circular logic.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ceece View Post
Close. Free speach means you can state your opinions without reprocussions from an oppressive government. Not that you can say/do whatever you want, whenever you want, wherever you want without reprocussions from whoever you are addressing.
True. My intention was to point out that many people who claim the right to practice freedom of speech also tend to wish the oppression of other types of speech; namely those types of speech that are in opposition to their beliefs.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ceece View Post
I guess I'm not understanding the OP or what "free speech" isn't being allowed. Knowing that might shed some light here.
I'm not absolutely sure, but I believe that the OPs intentions lie in the first sentence of what StarlaJane posted a few posts up.
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Old 04-01-2010, 07:54 AM
 
Location: Earth
3,456 posts, read 4,753,401 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrEarth View Post
It is amazing the number of people who do not know what liberal arts are, even students who major in liberal arts.
I don't think that anyone is confusing "Liberal Arts" with "being a liberal." Academia has a reputation for being politically liberal (and deservedly so) as many times, it comes through in the lectures of professors.

However, I agree with the poster that stated that this isn't usually the case at a *good* university or college, at which most professors usually present a balanced view of an issue or topic and the idea is the dissemination of information (from which a student ponders the issue and arrives at his/her own opinion or conclusion) rather than indoctrination.
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Old 04-01-2010, 12:53 PM
 
Location: Houston
3,567 posts, read 1,608,290 times
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No, it is not an ignorant conclusion. There are clearly cases where you can not allow people to say whatever they want.
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Old 04-02-2010, 04:07 PM
 
Location: Washington, DC
605 posts, read 1,366,594 times
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I attended a college that was both liberal arts and generally politically progressive. Though there certainly was a certain liberal trend in the campus culture as indicated by voting habits, newspaper articles, and clubs, respect for others was also a huge part of our school culture. In class, you were welcome to say what you wanted or write what you wanted. The only stipulation was that you had to find solid evidence to support your point of view. I took a philosophy class on biomedical ethics that was remarkable balanced because we were required to examine various philosophies and apply those philosophies to contemporary debates whether or not we subscribed to the views of the philosopher being studied.

Many of my friends attended other liberal arts colleges in the northeast that had a similarly progressive campus culture. They too had both liberal and conservative classmates and found a fairly open and respectful culture.

It's not that free speech is limited. There are just some environments where conservatives are in the minority. This does not mean they are hated, unwelcome, or barred from participating in campus life.
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Old 04-02-2010, 06:27 PM
 
Location: Earth
3,456 posts, read 4,753,401 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mrs. 14th & You View Post
I attended a college that was both liberal arts and generally politically progressive. Though there certainly was a certain liberal trend in the campus culture as indicated by voting habits, newspaper articles, and clubs, respect for others was also a huge part of our school culture. In class, you were welcome to say what you wanted or write what you wanted. The only stipulation was that you had to find solid evidence to support your point of view. I took a philosophy class on biomedical ethics that was remarkable balanced because we were required to examine various philosophies and apply those philosophies to contemporary debates whether or not we subscribed to the views of the philosopher being studied.

Many of my friends attended other liberal arts colleges in the northeast that had a similarly progressive campus culture. They too had both liberal and conservative classmates and found a fairly open and respectful culture.

It's not that free speech is limited. There are just some environments where conservatives are in the minority. This does not mean they are hated, unwelcome, or barred from participating in campus life.
I think that it depends on the school. I do not consider myself a conservative and, yet, at the school that I am currently attending, the teachers are so far to the left that they make everyone who doesn't agree with them look like a conservative. What really annoys me about the situation is that I prefer to gather the facts (and I rely on the teacher to supply them) so that I can make up my mind about an issue; at this school teachers just present/lecture their opinion (one side of the issue) and students are expected to reiterate that opinion.

Thus, every lecture feels as is the prof is trying to indoctrinate students. If and when a student does not agree with the prof, the student is patronized and treated as if he/she is "ignorant." And if you ask for clarification of the issue (i.e. both sides of an issue), you won't get it.

It's gotten so bad that I don't even speak in class anymore; the students who do speak are always contributing anecdotes that reinforce the teacher's opinion, and anyone who doesn't agree with the teacher is just dismissed by the prof, who dismisses the differing viewpoint usually by saying, "No" and just continuing with the lecture with no explanation as to why he/she disagrees, or why he/she feels that the differing opinion is flawed. I even have one prof who actually puts words in my mouth or twists what I have said in order to discredit my opinion. I can't even believe that such people have Phd's
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Old 04-02-2010, 06:36 PM
 
1,720 posts, read 2,401,992 times
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^^^^ ...Yep.

I can't tell you how many essays I had to read about perfidious white colonizers and evil rich people that were written by whiny, class-baiting, and dogmatic Marxists. The bias was utterly excessive and there was such an air of elitism to it as well. I tried to banter back and forth with my uber-Left graduate assistant professors, but gave up after a while because even though they let me say my piece, I knew such disagreements would probably negatively affect my grade.

But, an evangelical Christian church would probably be the same way. The difference is you don't have to spend $15,000 a year to go to church.

Quote:
I can't even believe that such people have Phd's
They are so inculcated to the ideological whims of the academic world that such regurgitations are taken as gospel. Education does not always make a person intelligent. It's best just to keep your mouth shut, get the good grades, get the piece of paper, and get the **** out of there.
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