Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
But the difference of course is that Columbus is full of bland big box stores INSIDE the city!!
I just don't see how anyone can look at Columbus as a totality and conclude it's better than any other similarly sized city. I can understand prefering the High Street corridor to the equivalent else where, but I really do think the simple fact remains, that that's basically all Columbus has. The vast majority of the urban area is pretty unremarkable.
I'm not sure how much economics or money should play into things here. But it can't be denied lots of old money went to cultural institutions. What does "new money" go to? McMansions in Delaware County? Some "poor" cities are actually much better cities than some rich ones anyway. For example, I'd take New Orleans over Houston 100 times out of 100. Houston can talk about its growth all it wants. It's not, and never will be, New Orleans. Kinda feel similarly abnout the Columbus-Cleveland/Cincinnati dynamic.
You don't see how anyone can look at Columbus and conclude it's better than Detroit? I think you need to get your eyes checked, then.
For Cleveland I think the following neighborhoods demonstrate a lot of uniqueness with different personalities and things to do. I'm also going to lump multiple contiguous neighborhoods together. We will not include downtowns.
1) Ohio City/Tremont/Detroit Shoreway/Edgewater - the trendy youung professional urbanista type lives here. Plenty of nightlife, at least 15 craft breweries, a plethora of coffee shops with people remote working all day long. Served by red line rapid and numerous bus lines, some 24/7. This neighborhood features the old school West Side Market, Edgewater Beach.
2) Little Italy/University Circle/Cedar Fairmount/Coventry - the cultural capital of the city with Case Western Reserve, Severance Hall, Cleveland Museum of Art, Museum of Modern Art, Western Reserve Historical Society, Cultural Gardens, Botanical Garden, among others. One of the cultural capitals of the entire midwest imo only rivaled/surpassed by spots in Chicago. Plenty of students and old school Italians. Lakeview Cemetary features some truly unique places, such as Wade Chapel and Garfield Mausoleum. Best architectural area in the city.
3) Shaker Square/Larchmere - modeled after European/Dutch city neighborhoods, with excellent rapid transit and bus service. Unique square in Ohio. Easily walkable too. Lots of housing options from classic high rises to duplexes. High population density. Accesible to Shaker Lakes.
4) North Collinwood/North section of Euclid - place where both blacks and whites coexist peacefully. Anchored by Waterloo Arts District, where national acts museum acts frequently perform (beachland ballroom). East 185th Street has a very long mile plus stretch of commercial activity, very practical. The most unique part of this area, unduplicarted anywhere in Ohio (certainly not Columbus) is the residential area north of Lakeshore Boulevard, where each block owns its own private park on Lake Erie. The entire public can enjoy Euclid beach and Wildwood park, part of Cleveland Metroparks and also Simms Beach/Park.
5) Kamms Corner/West Park - Irish capital of Cleveland. Solid stretch of bars, cafes and shopping, also served by red line rapid and bus lines. Classic cop/firefighter neighborhood, but now getting even bougier and sought after by other young families. Easy access to the massive Rocky River metropark.
For Columbus, I would equate Short North/German Village/Merion Village/Old Towne East with Ohio City/Tremont/Edgewater/Detroit Shoreway. It would be logical to lump together the University District/Clintonville/Old North with Little Italy/University Circle due to the college presence, but I don't find these to actually be all that similar past that. OSU much much larger, University Circle much more high culture oriented than anything in Columbus. There really isn't any answer to the ethnic areas of Cleveland. There is no Shaker Square Larchmere, North Collinwood, nor Kamms in Columbus. There are other neighborhoods in Columbus that may very well be nice, but IMO just kinda duplicates of the Short North attitude more or less. For example I don't see a qualitative difference really between the people and activities of Clintonville and the Short North. Or Grandview and Short North. The same people could live in any of these spots. The people who live in Euclid are NOT the same people who live in ohio city. It's just a completely different type of scene.
By the way, I could add more neighborhoods in Cleveland, such as Cedar Lee, parts of Lakewood, maybe Asiatown, maybe Old Brooklyn. Don't want to write anymore though.
So I wasn't familiar with all those neighborhoods, so I did a little exploring on Google Maps, and I have to say, pretty much all of those look the same with few exceptions, so I'm just not seeing the great neighborhood diversity that you're talking about at all. This seems like more personal bias and arbitrarily- and wholly inconsistently- applied standards here. Almost all those places look like neighborhoods you could find in Columbus. This is why I said that most American cities look very similar. We can pretend like they're vastly different, but they're just not.
I'd add the lower northside and the southside flats for Pittsburgh.
For Indy, at least Broad Ripple, Irvington, Mass Ave, and Fountain Square. The entire cultural trail is worth noting, even though it's not a neighborhood itself per se.
You're right that it's tricky to define. I'm thinking areas that meet any of the following
1.) Would attract tourists to visit for more than one thing (so a zoo wouldn't typically count, for example)
2.) Would attract locals to spend an evening or an afternoon, at more than one location
3.) Are comprised of some unique demographic (gayborhood, artists, ethnic enclaves, successful integration and diversity)
4.) Significant "built environment" interest -- kind of a catch all for architecture and other noteworthy features like Pittsburgh's overlooks, Indy's monuments and Cultural Trail, Cleveland's Edgewater Park and Playhouse Square. I'd even include largely residential areas in this, like Toledo's Old West End and Pittsburgh's hilltop neighborhoods (e.g. Southside slopes, Troy Hill, Fineview).
I'm genuinely curious to find out if there are similar places in Columbus.
I always see Broad Ripple mentioned for Indy, but its main thoroughfare is literally a stroad that looks completely interchangeable with a million ones just like it out in the suburbs. Full of low density sprawl with deep building setbacks and parking lots that look super uninviting for pedestrians. The side streets are a bit better, but it's just a residential neighborhood otherwise.
Irvington... what am I missing? I looked all over it and the nicest streets looked kind of like Parsons Avenue. And most of it didn't even have sidewalks in the residential sections.
Mass Avenue is at least urban and walkable, though again, it's nothing that Columbus doesn't have. Same with Fountain Square, although it looks a bit grittier than Mass Avenue overall, and seems about 10-15 years behind in improvements.
If one of the criteria is tourism, almost all of the neighborhoods given for any of the cities so far would be eliminated from consideration, as most given are merely residential areas with very minor business corridors, something every city in America has.
Attracting locals is at least more doable, but typically only truly walkable neighborhoods could do that if we're wanting them to go to multiple businesses in one night.
What's an ethnic or diverse enclave, though? For example, Forest Park between Morse and 161 in Columbus is incredibly diverse, not just from a racial perspective, but an ethnic and cultural standpoint. Some of the tracts around there have immigrants being almost 50% of the population. But it's also just a mostly residential zone. And because there are so many different people from so many different places, it doesn't have the same feel as say, a specific Chinatown or something. But those places don't seem to be created anymore, anyway.
What I do find kind of interesting so far is no one has mentioned any downtowns, just kind of adjacent or far-flung neighborhoods.
But the difference of course is that Columbus is full of bland big box stores INSIDE the city!!
I just don't see how anyone can look at Columbus as a totality and conclude it's better than any other similarly sized city. I can understand prefering the High Street corridor to the equivalent else where, but I really do think the simple fact remains, that that's basically all Columbus has. The vast majority of the urban area is pretty unremarkable.
I'm not sure how much economics or money should play into things here. But it can't be denied lots of old money went to cultural institutions. What does "new money" go to? McMansions in Delaware County? Some "poor" cities are actually much better cities than some rich ones anyway. For example, I'd take New Orleans over Houston 100 times out of 100. Houston can talk about its growth all it wants. It's not, and never will be, New Orleans. Kinda feel similarly abnout the Columbus-Cleveland/Cincinnati dynamic.
There's nothing all that remarkable about Cleveland, though, and for the life of me, I can't understand why some of you love it so much, either. Or Pittsburgh. Or Indy. Or dozens of other major US cities. We can talk all day about one person's idea of what a city is or the arbitrary standards they use to judge it, but it does not matter at all.
This growth at all costs thing doesn't make any sense though. It makes it more homogenous and corporate. Idk certainly people are allowed to have preferences. But by this logic lowest common denominators are aspirational.
I don't believe for a second that Cleveland wouldn't kill to have similar growth, though. You're bashing growth almost exclusively because it's happening in a city you don't like or respect, not because all growth is somehow bad.
I always see Broad Ripple mentioned for Indy, but its main thoroughfare is literally a stroad that looks completely interchangeable with a million ones just like it out in the suburbs. Full of low density sprawl with deep building setbacks and parking lots that look super uninviting for pedestrians.
I'm not sure what street you chose, but Broad Ripple Ave is a relatively narrow road and has a stretch businesses right on the sidewalk.
It's also an interesting area because it's not just one main street, there's a good bit of stuff off on the side streets too (Cornell, Guiliford, Carrollton, and a few others)
Admittedly it's not super high density downtown or anything. But it still makes for a fun area to explore.
Quote:
Irvington... what am I missing?
I was iffy on listing this, but it's one of my favorite parts of Indy. I just find the architecture and small tree lined streets so charming, some of them are still the original brick. (Here's one example , and pretty much all of Layman Ave is lovely). I like the small-ish but solid business district. It also has some cool-factor with the Old National Road passing through it and all of the Halloween themed events and decorations the neighborhood is known for.
Quote:
If one of the criteria is tourism, almost all of the neighborhoods given for any of the cities so far would be eliminated from consideration,
Maybe I am weird, but I have visited all of the places I mentioned in Indy, and I have never lived there. I found them all to be interesting places to explore, and well worth a stop if you are in town.
Quote:
as most given are merely residential areas with very minor business corridors, something every city in America has.
Not sure I agree with the "very minor" characterization, but in any case my initial goal wasn't to boost Indy, but to find out more about Columbus.
Does Columbus have more areas like these? Maybe they are not notable to you, but someone like me would still enjoy visiting!
Quote:
What's an ethnic or diverse enclave, though?
I don't want to over-complicate it. Anything you think noteworthy.
Quote:
Forest Park between Morse and 161 in Columbus is incredibly diverse, not just from a racial perspective, but an ethnic and cultural standpoint. Some of the tracts around there have immigrants being almost 50% of the population. But it's also just a mostly residential zone. And because there are so many different people from so many different places, it doesn't have the same feel as say, a specific Chinatown or something. But those places don't seem to be created anymore, anyway.
The large circular commercial zone in the center of that neighborhood certainly is interesting. And I see a few West African places. It's strange that a large chunk of it is a self-storage unit, and too bad that there are no sidewalks along the circle.
It's interesting that it's not just one or two demographics immigrating there. I wonder why it happened like that.
I don't believe for a second that Cleveland wouldn't kill to have similar growth, though. You're bashing growth almost exclusively because it's happening in a city you don't like or respect, not because all growth is somehow bad.
Growth in cities that have lost population is good, but you reach a point of diminishing returns, like in Columbus, Austin etc.. But the mindset that you have to grow at all times makes no sense. Obviously.
There's nothing all that remarkable about Cleveland, though, and for the life of me, I can't understand why some of you love it so much, either. Or Pittsburgh. Or Indy. Or dozens of other major US cities. We can talk all day about one person's idea of what a city is or the arbitrary standards they use to judge it, but it does not matter at all.
Pretty impressive cope!
We get it, Columbus advocates don't care about culture, history, architecture, art, religion, ethnicity, roots in general, puiblic transportation, recreation. Just like idk appartently malls, strip malls, and universities.
So I wasn't familiar with all those neighborhoods, so I did a little exploring on Google Maps, and I have to say, pretty much all of those look the same with few exceptions, so I'm just not seeing the great neighborhood diversity that you're talking about at all. This seems like more personal bias and arbitrarily- and wholly inconsistently- applied standards here. Almost all those places look like neighborhoods you could find in Columbus. This is why I said that most American cities look very similar. We can pretend like they're vastly different, but they're just not.
Of course I actually have residences in both cities.
First of all, they do not look anything like any Columbus neighborhood. Second of all, it wasn't all about what it looks like anyway.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
