[robr2]

Originally Posted by Henry10

“Some roads?” How about 75% of highway kilometers. Private operators operate them for a profit, although Govt regulates them heavily. For example, toll rates. Not unlike we regulate utilities, and the rates they charge. But these European companies are private.

We have nowhere close any private involvement into our roads. Govt employees even do pothole repair.

On this instance, I am not advocating one system or another, because I am very well aware that Europe has different dynamics from US. But to say “no private does highways” as if any private involvement would turn our highways into the Oregon Trail of 1846 — thats just going from hot to cold in a flash.

Can you get me a citation on this?

[JGBigGreen]

I've never seen any study that shows that 75% of highway kilometers are under concession in Europe. The most recent data I've seen put the number at around 33%. Admittedly this was 4-5 years ago but I can't imagine the percentage has grown that much. Be interesting to know though. It's also interesting to note that the term concession means different things in different European countries. For example, one older study noted that, of the KM under concession in Europe, more than half are managed by the public sector. (http://dinamico2.unibg.it/highways/paper/FAYARD.pdf) Similar to my earlier statement, I find it unlikely this has shifted dramatically knowing most European's love of government.

Originally Posted by Henry10

“Some roads?” How about 75% of highway kilometers. Private operators operate them for a profit, although Govt regulates them heavily. For example, toll rates. Not unlike we regulate utilities, and the rates they charge. But these European companies are private.

We have nowhere close any private involvement into our roads. Govt employees even do pothole repair.

On this instance, I am not advocating one system or another, because I am very well aware that Europe has different dynamics from US. But to say “no private does highways” as if any private involvement would turn our highways into the Oregon Trail of 1846 — thats just going from hot to cold in a flash.

[Henry10]

Originally Posted by robr2

Can you get me a citation on this?

Originally Posted by JGBigGreen

I've never seen any study that shows that 75% of highway kilometers are under concession in Europe. The most recent data I've seen put the number at around 33%. Admittedly this was 4-5 years ago but I can't imagine the percentage has grown that much. Be interesting to know though. It's also interesting to note that the term concession means different things in different European countries. For example, one older study noted that, of the KM under concession in Europe, more than half are managed by the public sector. (http://dinamico2.unibg.it/highways/paper/FAYARD.pdf) Similar to my earlier statement, I find it unlikely this has shifted dramatically knowing most European's love of government.

For example, you can go to this link for highways in France,

https://www.loc.gov/law/help/infrast...nce.php#_ftn24

2. Highways and Highways Tolls
Article L122-4 of the French Code of the Road System states that “the use of highways is free in principle.” That same article, however, goes on to say that the state may install toll systems to help finance the construction, management, maintenance, and development of that infrastructure.[19] The state may also delegate the construction, management, maintenance, and development of a highway to a third party under a concession system, in which case the toll may also serve as profit for that third party.[20] Furthermore, a highway may be financed jointly by a concessionary, the state, and/or a local government (such as a département), and toll proceeds may then be shared between the partner entities.[21]
A special body called the Caisse nationale des autoroutes (CNA) (National Highway Fund) exists to facilitate the financing of highway construction. Concessionaires may borrow from the CNA for the purposes of constructing and managing highways.[22] The CNA’s own financial resources come primarily from issuing bonds on the primary bond market.[23]

As of 2011, approximately 75% of French highways were the objects of a concession.[24]

Toll rates are normally based on the type of vehicle, and the distance between the vehicle’s entry and exit points on a particular highway.[25] Thus, in 2013, a car driven on the highway between Toulouse and Bordeaux paid €18.80 (about US$25.70), whereas a tractor-trailer or heavy bus paid €57.20 (about US$78.25) for the same trip.[26] The per-kilometer rates can vary significantly among different routes, as the toll rates for conceded highways are set by the individual concessionaires.[27] Furthermore, additional fees may be charged for the use of certain tunnels.[28]

[Henry10]

Here is an interesting 38-page economic paper about privatization of highways in Europe, Asia, Canada and US...

https://www.socsci.uci.edu/~ksmall/P...%20posting.pdf

I'll just cite for those too tired to read the whole paper..

"Privately owned or operated roads, once common but largely phased out over the twentieth century, are making a startling comeback. Spain, Portugal, Italy, and France have recently converted their high-speed intercity expressways to mostly private systems. The UK and Finland, among other countries, have taken steps in that direction; Australia and Canada have important private road projects; and in Latin America, privately built and operated toll roads are quite common.
1
In the United States, privatization has moved more slowly, but nonetheless is gathering momentum"

[JayCT]

Originally Posted by Henry10

Here is an interesting 38-page economic paper about privatization of highways in Europe, Asia, Canada and US...

https://www.socsci.uci.edu/~ksmall/P...%20posting.pdf

I'll just cite for those too tired to read the whole paper..

"Privately owned or operated roads, once common but largely phased out over the twentieth century, are making a startling comeback. Spain, Portugal, Italy, and France have recently converted their high-speed intercity expressways to mostly private systems. The UK and Finland, among other countries, have taken steps in that direction; Australia and Canada have important private road projects; and in Latin America, privately built and operated toll roads are quite common.
1
In the United States, privatization has moved more slowly, but nonetheless is gathering momentum"

There are significant differences between the US and Europe though. In Europe the primary form of transportation is mass-transit (trains, buses, subway, streetcar, etc.) and the cities are very dense. In the US, the primary form of transportation is the car and our cities and suburbs are a lot less dense. To completely privatize our highway network would put a lot of people, particularly those with more modest incomes (i.e. the middle class) in a difficult situation. Suddenly they will be forced to pay very high prices to commute from their suburban homes. It could have a very dramatic impact on one of this country's greatest strengths, owning your own home. We need to be very careful how we proceed with this. Jay

[mdovell]

Originally Posted by JayCT

There are significant differences between the US and Europe though. In Europe the primary form of transportation is mass-transit (trains, buses, subway, streetcar, etc.) and the cities are very dense. In the US, the primary form of transportation is the car and our cities and suburbs are a lot less dense. To completely privatize our highway network would put a lot of people, particularly those with more modest incomes (i.e. the middle class) in a difficult situation. Suddenly they will be forced to pay very high prices to commute from their suburban homes. It could have a very dramatic impact on one of this country's greatest strengths, owning your own home. We need to be very careful how we proceed with this. Jay

That's very true.

Now I'm all for private infrastructure but there are differences. A place like Disneyland has it all done to itself. Sometimes large companies can do a great job on their parking lots with a design. Oceanspray's HQ practically feels like a theme park.

However, we can't have tolls every few miles.

There are plenty examples of quasl government being involved

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_...lway_Authority

There's also this thing https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ambassador_Bridge
25% of trade between US and Canada goes over a private bridge. So I think it can be argued that roads by themselves can't be private nationwide but in more critical areas we do see bridges privately owned.

[East of the River]

So CT rail opens this weekend any one taking a ride?

[BPt111]

Originally Posted by East of the River

So CT rail opens this weekend any one taking a ride?

What some good restaurants in Downtown Hartford or Meriden ?

[East of the River]

Originally Posted by BPt111

What some good restaurants in Downtown Hartford or Meriden ?

In Hartford Black eyed sally's and Trumbull kitchen are both within walking distance of the station. Been a couple years since I have eaten downtown thou.

[JayCT]

Originally Posted by East of the River

In Hartford Black eyed sally's and Trumbull kitchen are both within walking distance of the station. Been a couple years since I have eaten downtown thou.

Those are still very good. There is a new Latin place right at Hartford Union Station called Chango Rosa. Here is a link to its website: https://changorosa.com/

Also not far is Agave Grill if you like Mexican and Max Downtown for American. Jay