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Be careful with Wikipedia, it's not the most reliable source.
Let's look at some other data: States With Higher Gun Ownership and Weak Gun Laws Lead Nation in Gun Death States with the Five Highest Gun Death Rates
STATE HOUSEHOLD GUN OWNERSHIP % GUN DEATH RATE per 100k
Alaska 60.6% 20.28
Louisiana 45.6% 19.06
Montana 61.4% 16.58
Alabama 57.2% 16.36
Wyoming 62.8% 16.32 States with the lowest gun owner ship rates
Hawaii 9.7% 3.31
Massachusetts 12.8% 4.12
Rhode Island 13.3% 4.66
New Jersey 11.3% 5.19
New York 18.1% 5.22
I won't spend time explaining it, I think the conclusion is obvious.
Alaska rate is almost entirely suicides.
Louisianas gun deaths are mostly in New Orleans which is one of the leading cities in the country for gun homicides.
Again, Montana is mostly suicides.
Alabama mostly is inner city in the biggest cities.
Wyoming is mostly suicides.
Percentage of gun ownership is not tracked anywhere and the poll samples used to determine it were too small to be accurate. Our government says there is currently no way to accurately track gun ownership in America.
Btw, VPC is rabidly a Anti gun.
So if gun safety is the last great unfinished business of the Obama administration, does that mean we can expect some new Obama led campaigns to ensure all Americans understand and practice the four rules of gun safety?
1. Treat every firearm as if it's loaded ...
2. Never point a firearm at anything you are not willing to destroy ...
3. Keep your finger off the trigger until you are on target and ready to fire ...
4. Always be sure of your target and what is beyond it.
Just wondering ...
If everyone observed these rules, there would be zero accidents.
Alaska rate is almost entirely suicides.
Louisianas gun deaths are mostly in New Orleans which is one of the leading cities in the country for gun homicides.
Again, Montana is mostly suicides.
Alabama mostly is inner city in the biggest cities.
Wyoming is mostly suicides.
Percentage of gun ownership is not tracked anywhere and the poll samples used to determine it were too small to be accurate. Our government says there is currently no way to accurately track gun ownership in America.
Btw, VPC is rabidly a Anti gun.
Is that an opinion or can you support it? You can pick apart what I posted all day long, I don't mind one bit. My only point was to demonstrate that there is no data that supports the hypothesis posed by the OP, that there are fewer gun deaths in places where gun laws are lax and gun ownership is high. The data does not support that. I can give you a dozen links if you want- but I don't think you would be willing to consider a position other than the one you already have.
When will people start understanding that many of these mass shootings are DELIBERATE? The CIA and other intelligence agencies often deliberately use trauma based mind control on the assassins to carry out their agenda. It's the ideal psy op used on the populace. Create a problem (mind controlled assassins). Have a reaction (We need gun control). Impose the "solution" (gun control, with an eventual complete ban on all guns) that you wanted all along, but wouldn't have gotten popular support for had you not deliberately created a crisis. Problem. Reaction. Solution. It's the most common method used in many facets of life in order to take away our rights and to centralize power and control.
Until people start understanding many of these mass shooters are actually under trauma based mind control programming by our own government, they will understand nothing of the issue.
Documented facts are read aloud in the below video.
...and there's the problem. So, you wouldn't agree with people being licensed and having guns registered to owners in exchange for the ability to carry said guns in all 50 states without question?
Well, a big problem about it is.............we don't trust the people who make those rules.
Seriously, we don't. We don't because they make rules and then more. We don't because they change the rules when it is convenient to them.
We don't because case law has said the time to argue the regulation of a right is when it is occurring, not when the right has been regulated and then when down the road they decide to change the regulation. Having accepted the regulation before, there is no standing to say the changing regulation is against your rights.
Long story short to that is when it is something that the government licenses one for, the government can decide as it likes how it will be conducted or even who it will be conducted for. Ie, does it come under an illegal search if the government says submit to the breath test or we yank your driving license? No, because a driving license is an agreement with the government and one plays by their rules at that point.
Not so with the Constitutional right about having guns........at least, not universally yet.
Is that an opinion or can you support it? You can pick apart what I posted all day long, I don't mind one bit. My only point was to demonstrate that there is no data that supports the hypothesis posed by the OP, that there are fewer gun deaths in places where gun laws are lax and gun ownership is high. The data does not support that. I can give you a dozen links if you want- but I don't think you would be willing to consider a position other than the one you already have.
First, when the FBI data clearly supported that states with high percentage of legal gun ownership but low rates of black population have very low murder rates, and states with urban ghettos had very high murder rates regardless of legal gun ownership percentage, you tried to derail the initial murder discussion by throwing in statistics that included suicides. And you used a rabidly anti-gun site that did not clearly indicate that the "gun death" rates they posted included suicides - someone else caught that.
When I presented data showing that US had low suicide rates compared to most Western European countries with gun restrictions, you made a statement that it doesn't matter because there's no suicide by guns in these countries. As if when someone hangs themselves it's OK, but when they shoot themselves it's a massive problem that calls for gun control.
You avoid commenting on the statistical data from FBI - not some "right wing gun nut" site, mind you - and instead throw misleading and twisted info from trashy sites, or say that gun suicides are the only suicides that matter. Sorry but you come across as very indoctrinated, evasive, yet none too bright. Please don't consider this a personal insult.
Is that an opinion or can you support it? You can pick apart what I posted all day long, I don't mind one bit. My only point was to demonstrate that there is no data that supports the hypothesis posed by the OP, that there are fewer gun deaths in places where gun laws are lax and gun ownership is high. The data does not support that. I can give you a dozen links if you want- but I don't think you would be willing to consider a position other than the one you already have.
Why is it homicide rates are lower in high gun ownership states than in low ones?
Are you deliberately ignoring that and inflating your stats with suicide again? Do you actually beleive the things you are posting?
Why is it homicide rates are lower in high gun ownership states than in low ones?
Are you deliberately ignoring that and inflating your stats with suicide again? Do you actually beleive the things you are posting?
Actually, while your statement is somewhat correct (i.e. all of the top 5 states with low homicide rates have high rates of gun ownership, including the state with highest gun ownership in the nation) there are states with reasonably high gun ownership and high homicide rates.
The cause / effect is not gun ownership / murder rate. It's demographics / murder rate. The states with primarily white rural population tend to have both high levels of gun ownership and low murder rates.
There could be an interesting study of legal gun ownership rates vs number of justifiable self defense cases. According to Detroit's chief of police, there's a clear correlation between legal guns and saved lives. But there's no effort to track that statistic on the federal level. They track murders, but they don't track self defense cases.
So that makes the victims of guys like Houser just necessary collateral damage?
We could answer that easily if there was statistic on how many justifiable self-defense cases there was in the US each year.
We could see then if xxxx lives saved were worth xxx lives taken by people like Houser. Is there an orders of magnitude difference, or insignificant difference ?
But since FBI refuses to track the self-defense data on Federal level (it's available from the local PDs just like the murder stats they collect) we can only guess and use our best judgement.
Why is it homicide rates are lower in high gun ownership states than in low ones?
Are you deliberately ignoring that and inflating your stats with suicide again? Do you actually beleive the things you are posting?
Suicide is relevant to the discussion, why would you think otherwise? Maybe you should ask a loved one of someone who committed suicide by someone who had ready access to a gun if they think it's 'relevant'. As to this: "Why is it homicide rates are lower in high gun ownership states than in low ones?" the fact is that except for a few states in the west they generally aren't.
A new study found that states with higher rates of firearms in the home have disproportionately big numbers of gun-related homicides.
Gun-related homicides were also relatively frequent in the states with the most gun violence. Nationally, there were 3.61 homicides per 100,000 people. Seven of the the 10 states with the most gun violence reported homicide rates higher than the national rate.
I'm rational enough to understand that we have far too many guns in this Country to do anything about it. And I don't hate guns, my husband and I both own guns and we target shoot. My point is that it is illogical and untrue to say that gun deaths decrease when people have more guns rather than fewer, and the other false premise is that there are fewer gun deaths in states with lax gun laws. I get it if you tell me you love your guns and that you don't want anyone to interfere with your right to own them. I don't get it when you say that having more guns makes us safer, or that not having any gun laws makes us safer.
Last edited by 2sleepy; 07-25-2015 at 11:18 PM..
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