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One Western diplomat based in Iraq, but with extensive experience in Syria and Turkey, called the incident “brazenly orchestrated and inevitable,” but asked that the identification of his country not be used in the statement.
When asked which side had orchestrated it, the diplomat replied, “both. They back opposing sides and now have escalated an incredibly dangerous game of one-up-manship.”
There were many prior incidents. This time, Turkey was likely just looking for an opportunity to show that they won't be ignored any longer. It's very possible that this particular flight never even crossed into their airspace, or crossed for a very short time, but it was made an example of.
Turkey has been repeatedly shelling and bombing the Kurds in Syria who are fighting ISIS. In order to do so, Turkey has flown its jets inside Syrian territory for the last six months. In addition, They have been trying to create a safe zone inside Syria for their militants, which is obviously a violation of sovereignty.
Turkey has been repeatedly shelling and bombing the Kurds in Syria who are fighting ISIS. In order to do so, Turkey has flown its jets inside Syrian territory for the last six months. In addition, They have been trying to create a safe zone inside Syria for their militants, which is obviously a violation of sovereignty.
It's all planned to discourage Russians from bombing US allies in Syria.
Turkey has been repeatedly shelling and bombing the Kurds in Syria who are fighting ISIS. In order to do so, Turkey has flown its jets inside Syrian territory for the last six months. In addition, They have been trying to create a safe zone inside Syria for their militants, which is obviously a violation of sovereignty.
Exactly, opposing agendas all over the place. Build one up, shoot it down, Start over.
The Turkish military has probably been at hot standby waiting for a Russian screw up for days if not weeks. They are just lucky it was the Russians and not some other type of plane mistaken for a Russian jet.
Obama coming out and telling Putin that they should be more careful in their target selection then these kinds of mistakes wouldn't be happening, makes it obvious that this was done with US giving the green light.
The US, Turkey and Saudi are all a little ticked that Putin has strolled in and made them all look like idiots. While the US and allies have been over there playing tiddlywinks with the sole objective of getting rid of Assad even if it means crawling in bed with ISIS. Putin on the other hand has rolled in and began exterminating all the cockroaches bothering Assad. This left the US in the unusual position of being exposed as supporting terrorists (while claiming domestically to be fighting them)
How these idiots running this country have so screwed up our foreign policy in such a short period of time to the point that its now Russia being the hero out kicking terrorist butt while we secretly arm the same terrorists is beyond me.
Putin is no better than Obama or Erdogan.
He's not as much fighting ISIS as he's bombing every rebel group to keep Assad in power.
I don't see any side as having a comprehensive ISIS containment policy at this time.
Turkey has been repeatedly shelling and bombing the Kurds in Syria who are fighting ISIS. In order to do so, Turkey has flown its jets inside Syrian territory for the last six months. In addition, They have been trying to create a safe zone inside Syria for their militants, which is obviously a violation of sovereignty.
And Syria / Greece are welcome to shoot down Turkish planes when they cross into their air space the umpteenth time.
There's no knight in shining armor in this story. Russia deliberately provoked Turkey until Turkey called their bluff. Turkey deliberately provoked Greece probably knowing that the Greeks can't do sh#t about it.
Turkey has been repeatedly shelling and bombing the Kurds in Syria who are fighting ISIS. In order to do so, Turkey has flown its jets inside Syrian territory for the last six months. In addition, They have been trying to create a safe zone inside Syria for their militants, which is obviously a violation of sovereignty.
Turkey's hate towards the Kurds has been known for many many decades..and Turkey has tried to blame the militants of Kurd decent for everything...BUT The time has come..THEY have to chose their battles!! They have to be given a choice?? Be part of NATO and support NATO/UN Security mandate to defeat ISIL or withdraw from NATO altogether!!
After that..Putin needs to either join the enemies ( ISIS Mentality) within and continue backing ASSad and Iran by association...ORRRRRRR make a choice..go after ISIS and those who claim affiliation to that Ideology!! Putin is a Bully on the GRAND STAGE..blocks sanctions in the UN along with CHINA..onto brazenly taking over sovereign country portions claiming lies to justify, shoots down that Malaysian Plane out of the sky killings hundreds of innocents by mistake( boneheads in Ukraine fire on plane thinking it was NATO/Western interest flight ) then lie about it to HIS people..claim no involvement even tho it is his armoury and troops within Ukraine ( sovereign Country) Invaded it..Bully and a deadly one at that!!
Anyway..Putin is DOA to the world at large..His lies are/weren't believed..and NOW one of his planes gets shot out of the sky after weaving into Turkey after unloading it's missiles tagging Turks fighting with the Syrian Resistance!!
Given, the picture ..I'm on the NATO side..and while Turkey made a provocative move..it sure pales compared to shooting a domestic plane out of the sky like Putin's minions did!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mystery123
It's all planned to discourage Russians from bombing US allies in Syria.
Yes..However, your post is far too simplified to cover the history/facts and actions of the past 4-5 years...
Turkey's hate towards the Kurds has been known for many many decades..and Turkey has tried to blame the militants of Kurd decent for everything...BUT The time has come..THEY have to chose their battles!! They have to be given a choice?? Be part of NATO and support NATO/UN Security mandate to defeat ISIL or withdraw from NATO altogether!!
The Turks will always choose to attack the Kurds, the Kurds are the number one enemy of Turkey, and they would throw the entirety of their economic and military power at the Kurds before ever allowing them to be a significant political force and eventually their own country. Turkey has had to grind their teeth over the US support of the Kurds in Iraq for the last two decades.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyndarn
After that..Putin needs to either join the enemies ( ISIS Mentality) within and continue backing ASSad and Iran by association...ORRRRRRR make a choice..go after ISIS and those who claim affiliation to that Ideology!!
Putin is attacking the ISIS, it is on the news daily, western news; do you not read the news?
ISIS can only be totally defeated by a ground offensive, which the only people who could even attempt to do this is the Syrian government. The only way for the Syrian government to attack the ISIS is to first stop the rebels from attacking the. Have you even viewed a map of the conflict? ISIS strongholds are not really bordering Syrian regime held areas, the Syrian government has to first break through rebels lines to even get close to a ground offensive against the ISIS. Syria cannot launch a ground attack while still at battle with rebels.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyndarn
Putin is a Bully on the GRAND STAGE..blocks sanctions in the UN along with CHINA
Nothing stops anyone from unilateral sanctions, the entire world except for China and Russia could have enacted sanctions, but they did not... Even sanctions do not stop countries from violating sanctions (see Iran-Contra for example); and since when has sanctions ever really solved anything?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyndarn
..onto brazenly taking over sovereign country portions claiming lies to justify, shoots down that Malaysian Plane out of the sky killings hundreds of innocents by mistake( boneheads in Ukraine fire on plane thinking it was NATO/Western interest flight ) then lie about it to HIS people
I see Crimea voting for independence, then voting to join Russia. You can state the vote was rigged all you want, but even Ukrainian news stated that over 90% of its military there decided to defect to Russia. If you actually ever visited the place and east Ukraine, you would know hardly anyone was a fan of being part of Ukraine, having the fairly elected president ousted in a coup was the straw that broke the camel's back. Russia did not really do anything different than what most countries have done in their history.
The Malaysian downing was an accident, plain and simple. They thought it was a Ukrainian war plane, as they have been shot down a few times and were operating in the area. The questions should be; why were airlines flying over a war zone in which aircraft were being shot down, and; why did Ukraine allow airlines to fly this path. Accidents happen though, even the US, with its high tech anti-air systems, accidentally shot down a civilian plane before, and Ukraine has shot down a Russian civilian plane also.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyndarn
..claim no involvement even tho it is his armoury and troops within Ukraine ( sovereign Country) Invaded it..Bully and a deadly one at that!!
The US denied any involvement for years in Syrian until recently, when it disclosed that yes, in fact the CIA has been operating in Syria. I can pull up a post from over a year ago where I stated the CIA was operating there, all the while the US was denying having anyone on the ground. SO point is, yes, countries deny being in places, nothing unusual there.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyndarn
Anyway..Putin is DOA to the world at large..His lies are/weren't believed..and NOW one of his planes gets shot out of the sky after weaving into Turkey after unloading it's missiles tagging Turks fighting with the Syrian Resistance!!
DOA on the world stage? Governments love this guy, the defense hawks love this guy. Putin has made many people in the West rich, and provides a great talking point for politicians to deflect from domestic issues. Only Putin provides the best justification for multi-billion dollar weapon systems. Damn, I bet all these war hawks are wondering what to do when Putin is replaced, with fear that a new Russian leader quite will not make these billion dollar weapon systems needed, and not provide deflection from domestic issues.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyndarn
Given, the picture ..I'm on the NATO side..and while Turkey made a provocative move..it sure pales compared to shooting a domestic plane out of the sky like Putin's minions did!!
Oh, I am sure you are on NATO's side, though this has nothing to do with NATO, no more than the US involvement in Haiti or Somalia had anything to do with NATO. NATO could kill a bus load of nuns and you would probably still be on their side.
NATO is a dangerous organization, it is an organization in search of a mission. Zero combat involvements during the Cold War, four since the Cold War was over.
Location: In a little house on the prairie - literally
10,202 posts, read 7,917,771 times
Reputation: 4561
Quote:
Originally Posted by boxus
The Turks will always choose to attack the Kurds, the Kurds are the number one enemy of Turkey, and they would throw the entirety of their economic and military power at the Kurds before ever allowing them to be a significant political force and eventually their own country. Turkey has had to grind their teeth over the US support of the Kurds in Iraq for the last two decades.
Putin is attacking the ISIS, it is on the news daily, western news; do you not read the news?
ISIS can only be totally defeated by a ground offensive, which the only people who could even attempt to do this is the Syrian government. The only way for the Syrian government to attack the ISIS is to first stop the rebels from attacking the. Have you even viewed a map of the conflict? ISIS strongholds are not really bordering Syrian regime held areas, the Syrian government has to first break through rebels lines to even get close to a ground offensive against the ISIS. Syria cannot launch a ground attack while still at battle with rebels.
Nothing stops anyone from unilateral sanctions, the entire world except for China and Russia could have enacted sanctions, but they did not... Even sanctions do not stop countries from violating sanctions (see Iran-Contra for example); and since when has sanctions ever really solved anything?
I see Crimea voting for independence, then voting to join Russia. You can state the vote was rigged all you want, but even Ukrainian news stated that over 90% of its military there decided to defect to Russia. If you actually ever visited the place and east Ukraine, you would know hardly anyone was a fan of being part of Ukraine, having the fairly elected president ousted in a coup was the straw that broke the camel's back. Russia did not really do anything different than what most countries have done in their history.
The Malaysian downing was an accident, plain and simple. They thought it was a Ukrainian war plane, as they have been shot down a few times and were operating in the area. The questions should be; why were airlines flying over a war zone in which aircraft were being shot down, and; why did Ukraine allow airlines to fly this path. Accidents happen though, even the US, with its high tech anti-air systems, accidentally shot down a civilian plane before, and Ukraine has shot down a Russian civilian plane also.
The US denied any involvement for years in Syrian until recently, when it disclosed that yes, in fact the CIA has been operating in Syria. I can pull up a post from over a year ago where I stated the CIA was operating there, all the while the US was denying having anyone on the ground. SO point is, yes, countries deny being in places, nothing unusual there.
DOA on the world stage? Governments love this guy, the defense hawks love this guy. Putin has made many people in the West rich, and provides a great talking point for politicians to deflect from domestic issues. Only Putin provides the best justification for multi-billion dollar weapon systems. Damn, I bet all these war hawks are wondering what to do when Putin is replaced, with fear that a new Russian leader quite will not make these billion dollar weapon systems needed, and not provide deflection from domestic issues.
Oh, I am sure you are on NATO's side, though this has nothing to do with NATO, no more than the US involvement in Haiti or Somalia had anything to do with NATO. NATO could kill a bus load of nuns and you would probably still be on their side.
NATO is a dangerous organization, it is an organization in search of a mission. Zero combat involvements during the Cold War, four since the Cold War was over.
Cool to watch a pro-Russian propagandist at work. You've learned your craft well, but are not fooling anyone.
Cool to watch a pro-Russian propagandist at work. You've learned your craft well, but are not fooling anyone.
Where did I state anything pro-Russian?
What craft I learn? Are you on the bandwagon of, "if you disagree with it, I am a propagandist/Russian troll"?
Instead of throwing out pointless statements, how about refuting what I have stated, besides the obvious opinion item regarding war hawks loving Putin.
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) then lie about it to HIS people..claim no involvement even tho it is his armoury and troops within Ukraine ( sovereign Country) Invaded it..Bully and a deadly one at that!! 
