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Not the point. Of course the parents have to sign permission. That's not the issue. The issue is the religious nature of the field trip.
Stop with the sports stuff. Start a new thread if you want to talk about this. This thread is crazy enough without a hijack about sports.
What's religious about seeing a Santa Claus? If the jewish mother didn't want her kids to go, all she needed to do was decline permission for them to attend. I highly doubt if the Santa Claus was intending to shove The Body of Christ down the kid's throats anyway....
People on either side of this issue, more and more are home schooling, and this is one of the reasons. These things were non-issues when I was a kid, what the heck changed? Nosy people with more time on their hands is all I can think of. That, and the increasing submission to political correctness. Which is weakness on the part of school administrators. You can't please everyone.
This really explains a lot. Keep It Simple, you're like a fish who, because it's always surrounded by water, never notices that it's water rather than air it's swimming in.
Would you be OK with your kids growing up hearing the (not-so)subliminal message that because they were not Hindu, they really aren't "real Americans," because of course all REAL Americans are Hindu? Would you be OK with them being unelectable to any high public office because they aren't Hindu? Would you be OK with schools openly celebrating all the major Hindu rituals (but never any Christian ones) and pressuring your kids to join in? Would you like to be constantly telling your kids "No, we can't celebrate Holi, because we're Christian and Christians don't believe in that" while all around you Holi is being relentlessly promoted, and all their friends are out having a grand time throwing colored powder all over each other and squirting each other with water guns? How would you respond when your child comes home and asks you, "Billy says there are lots of Gods, and our religion is wrong. Is this true?"
Because until VERY recently, this was the experience of every non-Protestant in this nation.
And while things have gotten better, don't kid yourself it's all fine now. Remember the presidential election of 2000, when Al Gore ran for POTUS? His running mate, Joe Lieberman, was a religiously observant Jew. I remember seeing articles in TIME and Newsweek in which readers were reassured that if an emergency came up on a Saturday, Vice President Lieberman would indeed be able to deal with it. WTF?! Can you imagine any major news magazine reassuring its readers that "Candidate X (a devout Baptist) will indeed be able to deal with any emergencies that might develop on a Sunday should he be elected to office"?
And look at the way so many people accuse the current President of being "a secret Muslim." Since when is being a Muslim (secret or otherwise) a disqualification for the office of POTUS? I suppose we should be happy that at least Catholics are now electable, because certainly prior to 1960 there were not. JFK's Catholocism was a MAJOR issue in the 1960 Presidential race, never mind the fact that Catholics had been in this country in significant numbers since before the Revolutionary War.
Did you know that it was only in 2007 that Wiccans who died in the service of their country were finally granted the right to be buried under a tombstone bearing a Wiccan religious symbol? Wiccan Pentacles at Arlington, and Why Litigation Was Necessary
When you are fully aware of the level of pervasive, government-sanctioned religious discrimination that non-Protestants have been forced to endure for most of this country's history, you'll better understand why so many people are so insistent on keeping the church-state boundary high, especially in public schools.
Please stop dumping on Protestants! 1960 was 55 years ago, for God's sake! (Pun intended) And prior to 1960, there were many Catholics in elective offices other than the presidency, including the gov. of New York, at the time the largest state by population. In addition, Santa Claus is not a protestant thing. "Saints" such as Nicholas are actually a Catholic thing. Lutherans, for example, believe that all Christians are saints. What Lutherans Believe: Lutheran Theology
Yea, because missing a day of fingerpainting is really going to impact his/her SAT scores
This wasn't even a day-long trip. Santa was at a café less than a mile from the school. A walking trip. For all we know, it was scheduled during lunchtime.
These things were non-issues when I was a kid, what the heck changed?
What's changed is that people who aren't Christian are finally able to stand up and say "Enough!"
If you think Jews, Muslims, Hundus, etc. were actually just fine and dandy participating in the public school's Nativity Play when you were a kid, you're dead wrong.
OMG, how HORRID. My jewish grandmother must have suffered terribly when she put up her Christmas tree next to her Menorah in the window every Christmas. Ever since she married that evil, controlling catholic husband of hers. What terrible repression! My mother and her three siblings had so much of both religions forced down their throats for so many years, they're still screaming in terror! Oy Vey Iz Meer! Basta sie Basta! AHHHHHHHHHGGGGGGG!!!!!!!
Seriously, though, this all boils down to Thomas Sowell's best random thought: "Those with time on their hands will inevitably waste the time of those who have work to do."
What's changed is that people who aren't Christian are finally able to stand up and say "Enough!"
If you think Jews, Muslims, Hundus, etc. were actually just fine and dandy participating in the public school's Nativity Play when you were a kid, you're dead wrong.
Please stop dumping on Protestants! 1960 was 55 years ago, for God's sake! (Pun intended) And prior to 1960, there were many Catholics in elective offices other than the presidency, including the gov. of New York, at the time the largest state by population. In addition, Santa Claus is not a protestant thing. "Saints" such as Nicholas are actually a Catholic thing. Lutherans, for example, believe that all Christians are saints. What Lutherans Believe: Lutheran Theology
Sorry, can't do that. Until very recently, it wasn't simply Christianity, but specifically Protestantism, that was considered the "default" American religion. Catholics were openly accused of having divided loyalties (much as Jews used to be and sometimes still are wrt Israel), and being un-American because they were of course obligated to serve as agents of Rome. That only began to really change on a national scale in the 1950s. But I will concede that following the election of Kennedy anti-Catholic bias faded rapidly and is now a non-issue. (Which gives me hope that someday the current anti-Muslim bias we see all around us will also be ancient history.)
And something a lot of people don't know what that in even earlier times, you didn't just have to be Protestant, but the right kind of Protestant for the local area. A year or two ago when I was walking the Freedom Trail in Boston, I came across a memorial plaque to a Quaker woman who had been executed by the Puritan government of Boston for the crime of being a Quaker in a Puritan colony. She refused to renounce her Quaker faith, so they put her under a board and piled heavy stones on it and crushed her to death. Lovey (NOT)!
Ah, religion! Bringing our fellow men and women together through their mutual love of stonings, hangings, beheadings, burning at the stake... Will our species ever learn?
Edited to add: phetaroi's post below reminded me that Mitt Romney's Mormonism was a pretty big issue for a lot of people in his recent failed presidential bid. I should have mentioned that in my earlier post as well.
As Faulkner said: "The past is never dead. It's not even past."
I grew up in a simpler time when people did not complain about such things . I'm Catholic and grew up in an area that was 25% Jewish, and came home from school with dreidels and handmade menorahs. Jewish kids went home with handmade Christmas trees. My folks did not run to the school administration and worry that time was spent learning about "other religions" - in fact they were happy about it. Perhaps today they may be considered clueless. Or perhaps they would be considered smart. Somehow I survived these horrors and today have friends and family of all faiths and colors.
The state university system here in New York (with the exception of Stony Brook University, which ceased in 2012) closes for three Jewish holidays in September- in fact the dorms close in some schools and students have to go back home. It's an inconvenience but not much complaining. The SUNY system has a significant and rising Asian population, but so far no holidays for them.
NY City pubilc school system is looking into granting holidays for the rising Asian and Muslim population, which makes sense. In time there will be holidays for more groups than the school year can handle - then it's either none at all, or shorter summer vacations . We will see how that goes.
As for Santa - he is untouchable and bulletproof !!
...These things were non-issues when I was a kid, what the heck changed? Nosy people with more time on their hands is all I can think of. That, and the increasing submission to political correctness. Which is weakness on the part of school administrators. You can't please everyone.
I don't know when or where you were a kid, but I can tell what's changed since I was a kid. I lived in a small town of a little over 3,000 in the village and another 3,000 in the surrounding township. The population was 100% White until about 1962 when 1 Black family finally moved into the town and were...not violently, but fairly consistently shunned. And, at least until I moved away in about 1972, that was the only Black family in town. No Latinos, either. No Asians. 1 family was Jewish and had to go to "the big city" burbs (Rochester) to find a synagogue. The town was predominantly Protestant, with a minority of Catholics...even though it was the birthplace of Mormonism...but don't worry, the Mormons were pretty much gone because Joseph Smith was run out of town over the excuse that he was a horse thief. There were a handful of Mormon families still in town, and they held services in their homes. There was an Assembly Of God church, but most Palmyrans said "that's not a real church". One afternoon a week, the Protestant kids were let out of school an hour early to go to church school. None of kids of other religons could go because their churches were too far away to walk safely...even though many kinds walked right past those churches an hour later on their way home from school.
That's what's changed.
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