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Old 12-29-2016, 07:53 PM
 
18,950 posts, read 11,603,494 times
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From this point forward posts including partisan politics comments will be deleted in full

 
Old 12-29-2016, 08:40 PM
 
3,652 posts, read 3,789,235 times
Reputation: 5566
[quote=markg91359;46650416

The public lands belong to the public. Not just to cattle ranchers. When Grand Staircase Escalante National Monument was designated, the grazing rights of ranchers within the monument were protected and management of the Monument was given to the BLM (which is rancher friendly) instead of the NPS. Some ranchers need to realize they don't own these lands. They simply lease them. The government has a right to revoke leases or modify them pursuant to legal standards. The lands are there for everyone including tourists and sightseers.
[/QUOTE]



As I said earlier, and you quoted, public access is NOT limited when the land is leased for grazing.

I can guarantee multiple use, what will be allowed on these lands by people wishing to visit, will be regulated and reduced now that they have been designated as monuments.
 
Old 12-30-2016, 05:01 AM
 
18,950 posts, read 11,603,494 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by toosie View Post
From this point forward posts including partisan politics comments will be deleted in full

And infracted - seriously, lay off politics in Current Events threads
 
Old 12-30-2016, 08:09 AM
 
Location: Sun City West, Arizona
50,889 posts, read 24,393,171 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Javacoffee View Post
Why not do that with everybody's property? Why should any individual own a piece of this planet? Shouldn't our planet be open to everyone?

If you approve of Obama's move, you should also be willing to hand your own property over to the public.
Some of America should belong to all Americans.
 
Old 12-30-2016, 08:10 AM
 
Location: Sun City West, Arizona
50,889 posts, read 24,393,171 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elan View Post
Sorry to hear that. National monuments are magnets for vacationers who do not respect the land.
And private interests do?
 
Old 12-30-2016, 08:30 AM
 
Location: Sun City West, Arizona
50,889 posts, read 24,393,171 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by duster1979 View Post
Strip mining, no. But properly managed grazing land does much better than land left unused.
How so?

How should we improve the Grand Canyon so we don't let Mother Nature ruin it?
 
Old 12-30-2016, 08:31 AM
 
Location: Sun City West, Arizona
50,889 posts, read 24,393,171 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mishigas73 View Post
I'd add responsible logging to that as well.
GOLD BUTTE | Nevada has a new national monument after a 15-year push | KSNV

Wow, just look at all that responsible logging that can take place there!
 
Old 12-30-2016, 08:32 AM
 
Location: Sun City West, Arizona
50,889 posts, read 24,393,171 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by finalmove View Post
The "government" owns nothing. The American people own the public lands----it's private land that's been confiscated by the government and redesignated "public". That takes the land off of the tax rolls and it becomes unproductive.
A liability.
Moderator cut: .
Well wait a minute. Either it "private land" or it's owned by "the American people". You can't have it both ways.
 
Old 12-30-2016, 09:06 AM
 
14,409 posts, read 14,329,059 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phetaroi View Post
GOLD BUTTE | Nevada has a new national monument after a 15-year push | KSNV

Wow, just look at all that responsible logging that can take place there!
Yup, when someone talks about "logging", it tells me that they don't know much about the land in question. Much of this land is uninhabited today because it is so rough and barren. Essentially, the land can be used for grazing, mining, or sightseeing and that is about it. The President's proclamation keeps all existing grazing rights. It will also allow mining, where the operation is already in place. What is prohibited are new mining operations because that is true in all national monuments.

What is sad is that a lot of effort has been made to placate every interest. The rancher is still allowed to graze on this land. The mining company can still continue to extract minerals from existing sites. The Indian tribes will be allowed a role in managing the land. Finally, over the years there will be the addition of millions of dollars of additional revenue to the local economy because of tourism. It will be a source of jobs and wealth for the local community if people in that community are smart enough to grasp those opportunities.'

What I have observed over the years though about many communities in southern Utah is that the local population is really set on activities like mining and logging (in other areas). Even when you show them that these activities will damage the land and make it less appealing for tourists they brush it off. They don't own land in question, but many act as though no one else in the country should have any say over what happens to it. Of course, they get their vote like anyone else does. However, since this land is owned by all Americans, it means that people from all over America get to have a say in the management of these resources too. Its the way it should be.
 
Old 12-30-2016, 09:52 AM
 
Location: Keosauqua, Iowa
9,614 posts, read 21,284,995 times
Reputation: 13675
Quote:
Originally Posted by phetaroi View Post
How so?

How should we improve the Grand Canyon so we don't let Mother Nature ruin it?
Try to keep it in perspective. Grazing livestock, provided they aren't allowed to overgraze (hence the "responsible" qualifier), benefit arid grasslands by creating fertilizer and spreading seed through their manure, and by breaking the topsoil with their hooves which increases the permeability of the soil. And a leaseholder with a vested interest in maintaining the land for grazing will be proactive with erosion control, removal of noxious weeds, etc.

Obviously there are some sites tht are best left untouched. That's not what I was talking about.
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