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"“If a student feels hurt or offended by another student’s comment, the hurt student can say ‘ouch.’ In acknowledgement, the student who made the hurtful comment says “oops.” If necessary, there can be further dialogue about this exchange.”"
I thought this was a joke at first but it appears not. Something you might see in kindergarten but college? I feel sorry for those in college these days. When I went to college we all somehow dealt with all the typical flow of life without being so coddled with all of this nonsense.
"“If a student feels hurt or offended by another student’s comment, the hurt student can say ‘ouch.’ In acknowledgement, the student who made the hurtful comment says “oops.” If necessary, there can be further dialogue about this exchange.”"
I thought this was a joke at first but it appears not. Something you might see in kindergarten but college? I feel sorry for those in college these days. When I went to college we all somehow dealt with all the typical flow of life without being so coddled with all of this nonsense.
I don't know who the "we" are that you're referring to, but when I was in college, the students of color simply had to swallow some of the rude, deliberately hostile, and sometimes just plain clumsy and ignorant comments made toward them. They had to live with the stress and anger or depression resulting from other students telling them point blank that they didn't belong in the university, with assumptions that all students of color get in on some kind of qualifications-waiver and special treatment and that none of them could possibly as qualified or more qualified than many of the "mainstream" students, and other deliberate or unwitting jabs. This is not healthy, and having to live in such an environment places an undue burden on the students made to feel unwelcome and undeserving.
In some universities, students banded together to take constructive action, petitioning the administration to enact an ethnic studies requirement. (You'd be surprised how receptive university faculty were to this idea, especially those whose class enrollments would benefit from it.) One university actually hired a Black president as a result of minority student feedback.
Still, the problem persists. I see nothing wrong with the recipient of an offensive remark expressing their disgruntlement with a mere "ouch". It beats flaming the offender. This is isn't some radical departure from ordinary speech norms, anyway; plenty of people say "ouch" or some equivalent in response to a backhanded compliment, or other rudeness. It's not a big deal. And it's good to see that university administrators are making an effort to create a climate of acceptance for all students, so that all can attend institutions of higher education on an equal footing.
Nothing to see here, people--move along, move along.
Last edited by Ruth4Truth; 03-17-2017 at 01:51 PM..
I don't know who the "we" are that you're referring to, but when I was in college, the students of color simply had to swallow some of the rude, deliberately hostile, and sometimes just plain clumsy and ignorant comments made toward them. They had to live with the stress and anger or depression resulting from other students telling them point blank that they didn't belong in the university, with assumptions that all students of color get in on some kind of qualifications-waiver and special treatment and that none of them could possibly as qualified or more qualified than many of the "mainstream" students, and other deliberate or unwitting jabs. This is not healthy, and having to live in such an environment places an undue burden on the students made to feel unwelcome and undeserving.
In some universities, students banded together to take constructive action, petitioning the administration to enact an ethnic studies requirement. (You'd be surprised how receptive university faculty were to this idea, especially those whose class enrollments would benefit from it.) One university actually hired a Black president as a result of minority student feedback.
Still, the problem persists. I see nothing wrong with the recipient of an offensive remark expressing their disgruntlement with a mere "ouch". It beats flaming the offender. This is isn't some radical departure from ordinary speech norms, anyway; plenty of people say "ouch" or some equivalent in response to a backhanded compliment, or other rudeness. It's not a big deal. And it's good to see that university administrators are making an effort to create a climate of acceptance for all students, so that all can attend institutions of higher education on an equal footing.
Nothing to see here, people--move along, move along.
"We" equals mankind, college age supposed adults learning to deal with the nice and no so nice things in life that each and everyone of us needs to learn and accept as reality as there's not always a "safe space"/"solution" using ineffective/naive methods. And part of growing up/acting like an adult is to understand the reality that outside of bubbles in life, ie institutions, there will be rude people saying rude things that we all just have to learn to deal with, not "fixing" it with silly cookbook kindergarten like "ouch"/"oops". Controlling the uncontrollable. And teaching silly phrases can control it all is beyond naive and unhealthy to say the least for proper adult development. These are adults now, not kindergarten children, and need to deal with problems in non-kindergarten/child like "solutions"/ways. And yes, there are of course points if someone is getting harassed actions should be taken against such people(laws/protections already exist) but I think dealing with all of this in a kindergarten/naive type manner helps no one. And not healthy for proper adult development in dealing with the reality that life doesn't exist in a protective bubble.
I can tell you this....many young adults are having big time trouble dealing with reality because they have been so coddled with these type of protectionist views/the application of it. This is the reality of what this is breeding and a big part of it is this generation is being coddled and sheltered to realty and when they get out in the workplace, in society, they don't know how to deal with it all and end up with lots of problems:
All that is silly. I had no time for all that in college. Working nights to pay for it. Studying on my off hours. Attending parties and having fun. I am beginning to think some people have too much time on their hands to get all emotional and upset over some slight.
"We" equals mankind, adults learning to deal with the nice and no so nice things in life that each and everyone of us needs to learn and accept as reality as there's not always a "safe space"/solving problems with naive methods. And part of growing up/acting like an adult is to understand the reality that outside of bubbles in life, ie institutions, there will be rude people saying rude things that we all just have to learn to deal with, not "fixing" it with silly cookbook kindergarten "ouch"/"oops". These are adults now, not kindergarten children, and need to deal with problems in non-kindergarten/child like "solutions". And yes, there are of course points if someone is getting harassed actions should be taken against such people but I think dealing with all of this in a kindergarten/naive type manner helps no one. And that's not health either.
I agree that safe spaces seem extreme, though before official safe spaces, students used their dedicated student-association meeting rooms to vent with and get support from their peers. So I don't know how different the safe-space thing is from that; I don't know much about it.
College offers a certain socialization function. You have a LOT of kids coming together from a tremendous variety of home backgrounds, some of which are quite isolated and parochial in some ways. You have wealthy students who condescend toward students who don't dress a certain way (a couple of whom might even be their roommates). You have students who may never have had much interaction at all with people of color, who have grown up believing stereotypes. You may have some students who have always made fun of disabled people. You might have students from certain religious backgrounds who might be intolerant toward those of other religions.
There are all kinds out there, and in the little microcosm of the family household, certain views and speech patterns seem "normal" that aren't acceptable in the big world out there, especially a world like a college campus that throws a lot of people from vastly differing backgrounds together. It's a growth experience for students from sheltered environments to learn to get along with others, and be considerate of others. Is this not one hallmark of a civilized society?
I see nothing wrong with university administrators putting students on notice that common courtesy and respect is expected in their interactions with others. In fact, federal guidelines may require them to work toward establishing a non-discriminatory environment on campus, similarly to how Title IX has been interpreted more recently as a mandate to quell violence against women in the college environment. I'm not sure about that, but I do believe that everyone has the right to attend college on an equal footing, without harassment or being made to feel unwelcome.
I agree that safe spaces seem extreme, though before official safe spaces, students used their dedicated student-association meeting rooms to vent with and get support from their peers. So I don't know how different the safe-space thing is from that; I don't know much about it.
College offers a certain socialization function. You have a LOT of kids coming together from a tremendous variety of home backgrounds, some of which are quite isolated and parochial in some ways. You have wealthy students who condescend toward students who don't dress a certain way (a couple of whom might even be their roommates). You have students who may never have had much interaction at all with people of color, who have grown up believing stereotypes. You may have some students who have always made fun of disabled people. You might have students from certain religious backgrounds who might be intolerant toward those of other religions.
There are all kinds out there, and in the little microcosm of the family household, certain views and speech patterns seem "normal" that aren't acceptable in the big world out there, especially a world like a college campus that throws a lot of people from vastly differing backgrounds together. It's a growth experience for students from sheltered environments to learn to get along with others, and be considerate of others. Is this not one hallmark of a civilized society?
I see nothing wrong with university administrators putting students on notice that common courtesy and respect is expected in their interactions with others. In fact, federal guidelines may require them to work toward establishing a non-discriminatory environment on campus, similarly to how Title IX has been interpreted more recently as a mandate to quell violence against women in the college environment. I'm not sure about that, but I do believe that everyone has the right to attend college on an equal footing, without harassment or being made to feel unwelcome.
"Ouch" and "Oops" does nothing to address what you're bringing up. It's silly and naive and ineffective as again, these are adults, not children in kindergarten. As I stated, there are already rules and laws on the books to address what you're concerned about. And life isn't as pretty/accepting/can't be controlled in a fake environment as they are trying to make college these days with this silliness so the sooner adults become adults and learn the reality that everyone isn't going to love everyone else/accept what/who they are, the sooner people grow up and accept this unfortunate reality, the better adjusted they will be. Otherwise as I posted the sources/url's a few posts up, you get "adults" who never grow up, were sheltered from reality that can't be controlled, and end up with all sorts of psychological problems when they discover that the world isn't all rainbows and unicorns and everyone accepts everyone else. That's the unfortunate harsh reality of, well, reality. And the sooner an adults learns to be an adult and accepts this reality, the better adjusted they will be.
Seems to me that "Ouch" and "Oops" are great for helping people understand each other. Steve, I'm curious...say you accidentally offend someone, and the person says "Ouch!" Are you going to go off on the person and tell them to deal with life and toughen up, or would it que you to find out what it was exactly, that bothered the other person and have a dialogue?
Seems to me that "Ouch" and "Oops" are great for helping people understand each other. Steve, I'm curious...say you accidentally offend someone, and the person says "Ouch!" Are you going to go off on the person and tell them to deal with life and toughen up, or would it que you to find out what it was exactly, that bothered the other person and have a dialogue?
It's a way to tell students it's ok to speak up for yourself instead of remaining silent and putting up with offensive remarks. It's opening the door to good communication skills.
Seems to me that "Ouch" and "Oops" are great for helping people understand each other. Steve, I'm curious...say you accidentally offend someone, and the person says "Ouch!" Are you going to go off on the person and tell them to deal with life and toughen up, or would it que you to find out what it was exactly, that bothered the other person and have a dialogue?
Well, out of the gate, I respect other people/wouldn't say things to cause an "ouch!" as that's the way I was brought up. Doesn't mean I agree with all views/their views, certainly not, but even if I'm totally against someone's views or beliefs/don't believe in them, I wouldn't say nasty things to get an "ouch!". Now if someone gets belligerent/rude/says rude things to me, I'll tell them where to go and how to get there, sure, I'll stand up for myself. Certainly wouldn't give them an "ouch" as that just seems non-sequitur/most bizarre/an odd response.
But I think it comes to this once again....if someone is in college and being rude to others, their parents or whoever brought them up didn't teach them to treat others with respect and it's too late to expect an institution like a college, workplace, etc. with words like "ouch!" to "fix" it. You can temporarily silence this person/keep them away from saying things to a person in "x" environment to some extent but you're not going to change their views which is the point I keep making.....all of this kind of "ouch"/"oops" will not change reality and that there are many people out there who are rude/don't like certain people for this/that/the other reason that can't be "Fixed" or controlled like what I think this "ouch" and "oops" thing is trying to accomplish. It's not addressing reality/preparing what these college graduates will experience in the open free world.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruth4Truth
It's a way to tell students it's ok to speak up for yourself instead of remaining silent and putting up with offensive remarks. It's opening the door to good communication skills.
"Ouch" and "Oops" does nothing to address what you're bringing up. It's silly and naive and ineffective as again, these are adults, not children in kindergarten. As I stated, there are already rules and laws on the books to address what you're concerned about. And life isn't as pretty/accepting/can't be controlled in a fake environment as they are trying to make college these days with this silliness so the sooner adults become adults and learn the reality that everyone isn't going to love everyone else/accept what/who they are, the sooner people grow up and accept this unfortunate reality, the better adjusted they will be. Otherwise as I posted the sources/url's a few posts up, you get "adults" who never grow up, were sheltered from reality that can't be controlled, and end up with all sorts of psychological problems when they discover that the world isn't all rainbows and unicorns and everyone accepts everyone else. That's the unfortunate harsh reality of, well, reality. And the sooner an adults learns to be an adult and accepts this reality, the better adjusted they will be.
No, there aren't, actually. What laws or rules are there against telling a student they didn't "earn" their place at the university? What rules or laws are there against approaching a student of color and assuming they're from the ghetto and could answer questions about ghetto life that came up in a sociology class?
Let's not forget that many, perhaps most, students entering college are venturing out on their own for the first time in life; this is the first time many have been away from the cocoon of family for a prolonged period. They can be vulnerable, shy, and may be bringing some difficult emotional issues with them. They're not equipped at age 17, 18, 19 to have a tough hide and to roll with the punches. They are, in fact, still teens, not adults yet at that age. College isn't a place where punches should be thrown, anyway, whether verbal or physical. How are they to build confidence in themselves if they're having to navigate a sometimes hostile environment? College is supposed to help build people up, not tear them down, or put them on edge.
In any case, many college administrators have decided that it's a priority to create an accepting environment for all. Colleges are recruiting a more diverse student body than ever before, so they're being confronted with this type of concern more than in the past. I think we should trust the administrators to know what's best for their institution, and for the students in their charge, now that they're finally responding to generations of students' grievances in this arena.
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