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Old 11-01-2018, 08:06 AM
 
Location: The Ozone Layer, apparently...
4,004 posts, read 2,083,450 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fisheye View Post
It boiled down to a poor decision and it will take a court to figure out just how poor. Of course it could be plea bargained before and that could end up with a lesser charge. On the other hand TX might want to send a strong message to all school bus drivers and the driver might be up a creek without a paddle. In this case it might be down the creek without a paddle!

I was a truck driver and, as a truck driver, we were always at fault, regardless of the cause. We were bigger, heavier, and more lethal than the small vehicles around us. So our primary job was to always error on the side of caution and always keep some 2X4s to strap on our butts! I carried a camera, of course all cellphones can now take great pictures, but I always had to properly document anything that might have been held against me. Better safe than sorry.

That driver should have tested the water before he plunged that vehicle into those flood waters. It was far too deep to successfully cross. Even if the water was not that deep and he did successfully cross; the video could have had him fired or charged. That was another poor judgement on his part.
He is accused of ignoring a barricade. How do you ignore a barricade that is submerged in flood water? How do you have a bridge that is known enough to flood to place a barricade (albeit not properly placed), but never put any guard rails on it?
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Old 11-01-2018, 08:06 AM
 
13,262 posts, read 8,029,628 times
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What I'm wondering about...


After looking at the google map of the bridge...and seeing how narrow it was...


And after watching the bus driver proceed through the water...


I wonder if that driver had ever actually been on that road before, or was familiar with it at all. Cause...maybe I'm not the brightest crayon in the box, but if I WAS familiar with that road, and I couldn't actually SEE the road, knowing how narrow it was, with no guard rails...I'm pretty sure I would not have proceeded.
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Old 11-01-2018, 08:09 AM
 
Location: The Ozone Layer, apparently...
4,004 posts, read 2,083,450 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sassybluesy View Post
What I'm wondering about...


After looking at the google map of the bridge...and seeing how narrow it was...


And after watching the bus driver proceed through the water...


I wonder if that driver had ever actually been on that road before, or was familiar with it at all. Cause...maybe I'm not the brightest crayon in the box, but if I WAS familiar with that road, and I couldn't actually SEE the road, knowing how narrow it was, with no guard rails...I'm pretty sure I would not have proceeded.
Not to mention, the submerged barricade could be the reason the bus came off the bridge.
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Old 11-01-2018, 08:16 AM
 
13,262 posts, read 8,029,628 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ComeCloser View Post
He is accused of ignoring a barricade. How do you ignore a barricade that is submerged in flood water? How do you have a bridge that is known enough to flood to place a barricade (albeit not properly placed), but never put any guard rails on it?

Well...I don't know ComeCloser...WE can see the baricade, watching the video. It would seem to me, seeing the top of the baricade poking out of the water should've been enough indication to not proceed. (shrugging my shoulders.) It seems like, from watching the video 2 or 3 times now, that he slowed down to decide to proceed or stop...and he chose to proceed.
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Old 11-01-2018, 08:21 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ComeCloser View Post
and their primary objective has always been to get students to school and then home.
...Safely. Their primary objective is to safely get students to school and then safely back home. If the roadways are dangerous, then they should not be attempting to take the children home.

A few years ago, there was a big ice storm. It was raining that day, and the temperature quickly dropped turning the roadways to ice. The schools all released early, scrambling to get the children home safely before the roads got bad. One of the elementary schools, located down a long winding road, decided the roadways were too dangerous for their buses. There had already been several accidents on that road, and they weren't going to risk it. The children stayed at the school overnight.

This bus driver should have turned around, pulled off to the side of the road... Anything to make sure the student on the bus arrived home safely. If there was no other way to get the student home, then take him back to school, call the parents, and figure something else out.
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Old 11-01-2018, 08:25 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ComeCloser View Post
Maybe you are right - but just like the barricade that consists of merely a caution sign projecting 1 foot +/- off the blacktop just past the stop sign at the T-intersection, you are assuming quite a lot for this poor/unkempt rural community that hasn't even put a 2 lane roadway or guard rails on the bridge yet.
I'm not assuming anything. He came to a point in the road that was impassable. He couldn't turn around. The choice to be made at that point is to stop, park the bus, and find some way to arrange for alternate transporation.
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Old 11-01-2018, 08:27 AM
 
Location: The Ozone Layer, apparently...
4,004 posts, read 2,083,450 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sassybluesy View Post
Well...I don't know ComeCloser...WE can see the baricade, watching the video. It would seem to me, seeing the top of the baricade poking out of the water should've been enough indication to not proceed. (shrugging my shoulders.) It seems like, from watching the video 2 or 3 times now, that he slowed down to decide to proceed or stop...and he chose to proceed.
There is no question he chose to proceed. Obviously. There is some question whether the barricade was properly placed for him to make a conscious choice to ignore it. It very easy to not be personally driving in a storm and second guess what someone did and how you would have handled it different, even though neither you nor I know that we would have handled it different. You never know how you would handle something, especially if you never experienced it before, until you have to handle it. (My yous are rhetorical and not necessarily just YOU personally, lol).

There is also no question that that barricade can hardly be identified as such. It should have been placed much further away from the flood, and possibly even checked on one or twice after placement.


Maybe some poor community is afraid of a law suit and trying their best to place blame squarely on the shoulders of the bus driver. I'm sure a good defense would level the playing field for him a bit as the principal claim against him is laughable as best. No one can claim that anyone can clearly see a barricade. No part of barricade poles are visible where the single lane roadway would be.
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Old 11-01-2018, 08:27 AM
 
16,421 posts, read 12,515,078 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ComeCloser View Post
No worries, but if you have ever driven a large high vehicle like that you know any driver could have easily missed that little sign altogether. More than one person has been killed this way because the vehicle is too high for the driver to see them.

I don't think that's the barricade though. I think we see the barricade as the bus uncovers it in the flood water. It is submerged. How can I ignore something I cant see? It originally looked like it was funneling any vehicles to the roadway instead of trying to keep them off it, and no one can deny it is for all intents and purposes, not barricading anything given it is almost entirely submerged. I hope the driver has enough cash on hand for a decent defense. The county deserves a little credit for negligence as well - or did the road crew placing the barricade assume the water would never get that high up?
He can't see the sign ... he can't see the barricade ... there's something I guarantee he CAN see, and that's 5'+ of rushing water.
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Old 11-01-2018, 08:27 AM
 
15,546 posts, read 12,024,982 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ComeCloser View Post
I would add that the video says he ignored a barricade - what barricade? The one little caution sign someone put on the ground that if you blinked you would miss while turning a full sized bus onto that roadway?
The sign was in the roadway. It was in the roadway at a stop sign where the driver was turning. He had to make a wide turn to avoid the sign. There is no way he did not see it. It is a brightly colored sign in the roadway.
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Old 11-01-2018, 08:29 AM
 
Location: The Ozone Layer, apparently...
4,004 posts, read 2,083,450 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hertfordshire View Post
He can't see the sign ... he can't see the barricade ... there's something I guarantee he CAN see, and that's 5'+ of rushing water.
That's what you see and good for you that you know that roadway so well that you can predetermine any water depth just on sight alone.
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