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Again I stand by that statement. If you are running a mountain lion will chase you. That is a well known fact.
Nope. Not at all a fact. Not even close. It is your own unsupported speculation and conjecture. The fact is that people jog in mountain lion territory all the time without being chased or attacked, even when lions are present.
RIF. Your link doesn’t say that if you are running, a mountain lion will chase you. It doesn’t say that if you are running, a mountain lion will attack you. You might want to find a better source, as that one didn’t help you at all.
This is closer to the truth than not, but it seems the poster thinks you are saying that if you run or otherwise move swiftly, it's an automatic that you're going to get killed by a mountain lion. What you're actually is if the animal sees you, the act of moving quickly will trigger its prey drive. I don't think this is 100%, though, but it's usually the way it happens, especially in close encounters when the human decides to run away.
So, is there what, more than a 50% chance of an attack? If it’s a probability assessment, how was that calculated?
Sounds like so many made up statistics. . .
It’s quite amazing that you are also coming to such an unsupported conclusion, given the rarity of lion attacks, along with the large numbers of people that are in lion territory, even jogging, all the time.
So, is there what, more than a 50% chance of an attack? If it’s a probability assessment, how was that calculated?
Sounds like so many made up statistics. . .
It’s quite amazing that you are also coming to such an unsupported conclusion, given the rarity of lion attacks, along with the large numbers of people that are in lion territory, even jogging, all the time.
Nobody mentioned numbers/statistics until you did.
Nobody said that mountain lion attacks weren't rare.
Nobody said that attacks are automatic if you're running/jogging in the outback. The chances of even being seen by a mountain lion aren't even that great, particularly during the middle of the day.
What we were talking about is when you're in close enough proximity to be seen by the animal. Nobody said that simply the act of running in the outback is going to result in being attacked by a big cat.
Maybe this can explain it:
Quote:
Lions chase by instinct. If you are lucky enough to spot a lion, do not run away. Lions can sprint at speeds approaching 45 miles per hour, so outrunning them is not likely to happen and your running away could trigger a lion’s instinct to chase. Once a chase has begun, the lion is no longer able to think rationally or assess whether their target is a deer.
To be cautious, you can avoid jogging or mountain biking at dusk and dawn when mountain lions are most active. You can also sing, talk, give the occasional shout-out, or play a podcast on your phone’s speaker while you bike and jog to alert wildlife to your presence.
My wife and I were hiking on this trail back in the day. On the side of one of the hills was this pretty nice bench. We sat down, had lunch and then started wondering what is this bench doing out here. It had a memorial plaque for Barbara.
Nobody mentioned numbers/statistics until you did.
Of course you did. The highlight below is a probability assessment. I was simply asking you what you assessed it at.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Metlakatla
This is closer to the truth than not, but it seems the poster thinks you are saying that if you run or otherwise move swiftly, it's an automatic that you're going to get killed by a mountain lion. What you're actually is if the animal sees you, the act of moving quickly will trigger its prey drive. I don't think this is 100%, though, but it's usually the way it happens, especially in close encounters when the human decides to run away.
Quote:
Nobody said that attacks are automatic if you're running/jogging in the outback.
Of course they did. From Cloudy Dayz:
Quote:
If they see you running, they will attack you. It's that simple.
Do try to keep up. . .
Quote:
What we were talking about is when you're in close enough proximity to be seen by the animal. Nobody said that simply the act of running in the outback is going to result in being attacked by a big cat.
Yes, bears and a few other wild animals will attack without provocation, or at least without DELIBERATE provocation.
I don't see that wild animals should have more rights than humans do. If humans can't enjoy hikes through the wilderness without fear of being killed by wild animals, then it's time to thin the herd... at a minimum.
They'll attack without provocation? On a whim or just because the animal feels like it in that moment? Wow. I've spent a lot of years living and working around a lot of potentially dangerous wildlife (including bears) but haven't seen much of that. Granted, a sick n animal that's out of its head might be irrational and act precipitously. The world is an amazing diverse place, so I guess it's possible to see something new every day! Still, as with so many other words, I guess it comes down to definitions. IMHO, the word "provocation" can include the following:
a) a creature senses it's being threatened
b) a creature senses it's young are being threatened
c) a creature feels its personal territory is being violated
d) a creature is starving, and the human presents itself as a source of food
e) a creature feels the human is competing for something they consider belongs to them: food source, water, shelter, etc.
f) the human starts acting aggressively or in such a bewildering manner the creature gets confused. Which leads right back to a).
Whether one animal is the same species as the other or not, deciding to resort to a physical attack is risky. Which is why so many species have developed non-physical ways to fight, compete with, or repel another animal. Vocal, visual, or olfactory displays, etc. The risk from physical attack ranges from unnecessary expenditure of energy, to injury, all the way to death. The animal has to assess risks before deciding what the best course of action might be.
Before you say it, this does not guarantee that an individual animal will always make the right decision in its own interest. A compromised animal may be desperate and make a desperate but ill-advised throw. It may not survive its mistake. A human can make stupid decisions too, and because human society has created lots of buffers to protect its more idiotic or incapable members, they tend to survive to produce more of same. Wild animals don't have those sorts of protections. They simply don't survive long enough to pass on those tendencies. Beneficial and self-limiting.
I don't consider Homo sapiens superior to anything else. I consider Homo sapiens different just as every species is different from the next. I also don't agree that a human has the right to expect immunity from non-human residents of any habitat that isn't completely created or modified to benefit human society (I mean an urban habitat). I consider that humans, whether they actually live in some wild place or simply visit, should have the same expectations any other occupant of that place has. For better or worse.
I don't place humans above other animals particularly because humans have some advantages and abilities others don't. The ability to analyze situations in advance and modify personal behavior accordingly. Most animals live very much in the moment. They don't foresee future consequences all that well. Humans are also very capable of informing each other of risks...they're cooperative more so even than other social species. Smart humans take advantage of the experience and teaching of others. Stupid or arrogant humans don't. To their peril. Consequently, if I rank humans against other animals it might be slightly below them because of those cognitive advantages. In other words, because we have lots of opportunities to know better. If we'd only use them.
Each potentially dangerous creature should have the right to defend itself or something it feels belongs to it, feed itself, care for its young. A human who blunders into something he has no business blundering into shouldn't get a free pass. An experienced, educated human can avoid those situations before they ever arise.
Last edited by Parnassia; 08-04-2023 at 04:18 PM..
I’m simply addressing that which Cloudy actually said. If Cloudy wished to say something different, Cloudy should have used different words.
I was looking at the bigger picture of what he said rather than isolating sentences out of context, but I think we can all agree that running from a big cat during a close encounter is likely to have an unpleasant ending. Edit: I agree that Cloudy could have chosen better words, but I think we could all do that at times.
Last edited by Metlakatla; 08-04-2023 at 03:28 PM..
I was looking at the bigger picture of what he said rather than isolating sentences out of context, but I think we can all agree that running from a big cat during a close encounter is likely to have an unpleasant ending.
I have a vintage fiberglass trail sign from cougar country hanging on the wall in my home office. It warns not to run from a big cat during an encounter. Face up to and fight off. AFAIK if something is printed on fiberglass it must be true!
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They'll attack without provocation? On a whim or just because the animal feels like it in that moment? Wow. I've spent a lot of years living and working around a lot of potentially dangerous wildlife (including bears) but haven't seen much of that. Granted, a sick n animal that's out of its head might be irrational and act precipitously. The world is an amazing diverse place, so I guess it's possible to see something new every day! Still, as with so many other words, I guess it comes down to definitions. IMHO, the word "provocation" can include the following:
