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Just to speak up for Girl Scout Service Units -- they don't always do everything perfectly BUT no member of Service Unit leadership is paid. Only staff at the Council level is paid. The Service Unit leadership consists of volunteer Girl Scout leaders who in addition to running their own troop of girls, take on coordinating tasks for a group of 50 - 60 troops in a geographic area. As shown by this thread being a member of the Service Unit team is truly thankless job that takes Service Unit leaders away from their own troops. Typically those who take on Service Unit leadership roles do so out of simple gratitude for those who were in the same roles when they became new leaders. Now back to our regular programming . . .
Okay, I will only put my oar in once more. You're new to the school. Other families/teachers/staff don't know you yet. And you're ready to tear up a principal and sue the crud out of an organization run by volunteers that MIGHT be purposely ignoring you. You have no one to vouch for you and you stand to gain a reputation as a total hot head. You are correct that your daughter is lucky she *has* a father but this is a pretty low bar, isn't it? Simmer down. That's all I'm saying . Parents are careful these days. Be sure you don't paint yourself poorly. Win the battle, lose the war and all that. I loved the image of Thin Mints burning in the yard. I'm talking more about playdates, or the absence of them, and choosing your moments carefully. But it sounds like you're more concerned with being right than developing strong relationships from where I sit. That could be so off base. But that's how it sounds. You're new. Be sure to throw some positive interactions in so you're not just that hot head father wearing out a principal with a ton of demands on him.
All I can say about the Girl Scouts is I was a Brownie and a Junior as a child, my troop leader and most of my troop was Jewish but we had girls from various schools in our troop, and we had a blast. I have nothing but fond memories of my time as a Girl Scout.
Some guys pee their pants and run to the mods with that.
And some women stomp off in a huff.
But We -- You and I -- We could get along.
So let's step through this --
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I never advocated "harassing" the volunteer leaders - just inquiring about the possibility of joining.
The "harassment" is how it would be reported about 2 minutes after You or I did anything per your "suggestion" . . .
Your words -- not mine --
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Force their hand and make them turn you down to your face, rather than through the Council organizer. They might cave right there, especially if your wife is offering her help.
Even the word choice is the mindset of a bully. Might work in Plano driving -- but is considered hostile in the rest of the real world.
Then goes up the Headline report of a Hostile Daddy with Anger Issues Trying to Bully the Dedicated Volunteer Ladies Who Are Just Trying Help the Little Girls.
Stomp on a real big bag of sh1t doing that. No Thanks. I am Just Not That Stupid.
Not saying I am not stupid, but I am not THAT stupid.
Look, I came up as troop in the Army, and O type, as well, Combat Arms. And came to Texas as a High School Drop Out working construction and worked my way to the top of the trades and advanced engineering degrees. I know how to be a bonehead.
I know, and you know how things work in the bulldozer push things around world.
But this is not that world.
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You seem awfully certain about this mythical "rule" forbidding contact between potential GS parents and leaders. You have a cite to go with that, or just what some bozo told you in passing?
Yes. The Council Leadership. Other Girl Scout Leaders. Mrs. Phil as Girl Scout Leader. ALL Saying the same thing.
But you know better?
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Since you've already made the case that the paid leader is a screw-up and giving you inconsistent information, why are you so sure she was giving you correct information on this particular issue?
Sure the rules-do-not-apply-to-me Mr. Big eGo.
The paid help all the way up is with their "methods." You do not actually work with any women in the real world, do you?
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As soon as we get ONE SINGLE actual former leader to come on here and confirm that parents are forbidden from contacting GS leaders, I'll concede the point. Heck, your wife should be able to confirm that point. Was she not allowed to speak with the parents of potential Girl Scouts? Seriously???
OK, but first Mrs. Phil says I should quit picking on you.
Then she says -- Yes, this is how it works. There are internal proposals to change things, but so far the We-Have-Always-Done-Things-This-Way crowd is holding ground. They will likely need some "problem" to back up from a local level for the National Level to be able to enact the changes.
And then without really saying this exactly -- this is what I am sensing is going on . . .
Since the Boy Scout do have a good working model it makes the resistance harder. These women do not want to be told what to do, and that someone else does things better.
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As far as you helping out others down the line, I beg ta diffa.
Option 1: Follow your advice and deal solely with the paid GS leaders. Net result - kid very possibly not in Girl Scouts, as you are experiencing.
First you have not even tracked the conversation. She already is in Girl Scouts, but since we have moved her troop is across town, and it makes it hard to get there after school, and is not part of any of the Scout / School things.
We are just trying to get her into the local school troop.
Not rocket science, but keep up, eh?
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Option 2: Follow my advice and make contact with troop leaders directly. Net result - kid likely in Girl Scouts, assuming space is available.
Again, you really do not get this world.
Net result of your methods. You would be declared a (eww, ick) man who had bully tendencies and anger issues, and they would then declare they now had cause to ban your daughter because of you.
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What to choose, what to choose???
Sorry my friend, but you are a bonehead.
You understand I am not saying that in anyway hostile towards you.
I really do like you.
But you, Sir, are a bonehead.
I cannot be the only one in your life who has told you this?
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I'll tell you how the Boy Scouts do it - they let the troops themselves (and their volunteer leaders) do the recruiting, and the paid council staff stay the hell out of the way. As you yourself observed with your son, you dealt directly with the volunteers running the local pack. There might have been a council guy collecting the paperwork in the back, but probably not even that.
Oh I know how the Boy Scouts do it. And I like it. A lot.
Just been through that last week with our 1st grade son. Great, well organized operation.
Bigggg Pack meeting. Had the whole calendar laid out for the year ahead on the first meeting. Leaders, Packs, Dens -- the whole freaking Class A operation.
I had already emailed and traded info with the Scoutmaster about uniform requirements last month, so our kid was ready. Had met the Scoutmaster at first day of school open house.
At 7:00 pm sharp the entirely full school cafeteria stands up to attention as the color guard marches in the side door with the flag. These guys are ready for Basic Training. I even started calling my son's den his "fire team." There are five of them. Looks like a little fire team to me.
If there were ANY problems, they would all be handled and completely closed right-there in real-time.
H O W E V E R -- THAT was the Boy Scouts and we are NOT talking about the way Boy Scouts works.
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Of course, since (according to you and/or the GS leader you've been dealing with), there's no way for parents to make contact with the local volunteers, I guess that won't work for the Girl Scouts.
A+
You got it. Even if mocking, at least you can pretend you understand it.
This is not Men's Rules World.
Otherwise I would have already ripped their heads off and sh1t down their throat.
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Why am I so insistent that I'm right and you're wrong on the issue of contacting local volunteer leaders? Here's why:
Well, actually no one asked, but do tell . . . .
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Let me share a tale from my time with the Cub Scouts. One of our leaders got a call from an irate parent. She had signed her kid up at the council office and had been assigned to our pack. She was all po'ed because we hadn't contacted them in 3 months.
Well, you can guess what actually had happened - the council cashed their check, put the kid on our roll (which we only see once a year), and never told us a thing. If she would have just instead made contact with ANY of the many leaders in our pack, we could have gotten her kid hooked up from Day 1.
IMO, "take out the middleman" is NEVER "bad advice".
Woopee Freakin Zip.
Now go back and look at the posts from the other Real World Women regarding Girl Scouts, and how the Girl Scout game is played?
Ok. I am half joking with you. I do not mean to be that big of a dick. Really, as they say, thanks for sharing the story. Really. Not jacking with you on that. Thank you.
But yeah, I get that Boy Scouts is a functional model. This is not Boy Scouts.
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Based on that past experience of mine, and your opinion of the paid leader's "challenges", I'd give you even-money odds that the troop leaders at your school aren't even aware that someone from the school wants to join. Yet here you are, ripping them a new one with the principal.
So you figure your one data point experience cancels out what every other poster on here has said about the game really works. Very interesting Mr. Big eGo.
Sorry to dog you too much. You know I like you? It is just surreal comical.
Meanwhile in the Real World.
The Principal is a professional. I know how to pretend to be one, too. She will simply ask the local leadership very professionally and very politely what is going on.
They will either:
1. Say "Oh My! We had no idea! Get the kid(s) in here," or
2. Dig a hole for themselves attempting to justify what they know they cannot.
Either path works for me.
She will then likely send me an email documenting the outcome.
As far as predictions -- Ask the folks on here who have been around which one of those will happen -- I dunno. I do not guess winners, I just have my contingencies for multiple outcomes.
And I don't put up with people with no actual authority over me telling me what I can and can't do. I guess you could call that "rules don't apply to me".
I do hope it all works for your kid. If not, 4-H is a good option. I have a friend in your neck of the woods whose 3 kids did 4-H and had a positive experience.
Okay, I will only put my oar in once more. You're new to the school. Other families/teachers/staff don't know you yet. And you're ready to tear up a principal and sue the crud out of an organization run by volunteers that MIGHT be purposely ignoring you. You have no one to vouch for you and you stand to gain a reputation as a total hot head. You are correct that your daughter is lucky she *has* a father but this is a pretty low bar, isn't it? Simmer down. That's all I'm saying . Parents are careful these days. Be sure you don't paint yourself poorly. Win the battle, lose the war and all that. I loved the image of Thin Mints burning in the yard. I'm talking more about playdates, or the absence of them, and choosing your moments carefully. But it sounds like you're more concerned with being right than developing strong relationships from where I sit. That could be so off base. But that's how it sounds. You're new. Be sure to throw some positive interactions in so you're not just that hot head father wearing out a principal with a ton of demands on him.
Can't rep you again, but this is all GOOD STUFF.
OP is totally missing the point that his family is now part of a community & a school district and that reputations formed on first impressions can follow his kid(s) all the way through to graduation.
Of course, there's a time & a place to speak up when a VALIDATED "wrong" has been committed. But sheesh- start throwing arounds threats of lawsuits and your poor daughter is bound to be socially "blackballed" (never being invited over to anyone's home, birthday parties, having anyone to eat lunch with, having friends, etc) if people are scared of you and think you will threaten to sue at the drop of a hat. Do you really think Girl Scount volunteers want the liability/responsibility of taking YOUR child on a merit badge field trip if you might sue if there's a car accident, your child skins her knee, the troup gets back late, etc???
You're new to the school. Other families/teachers/staff don't know you yet.
That is fine.
I do not believe family references or referrals are supposed to be needed for . . . wait for it . . . . Girl Scouts.
Are they?
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And you're ready to tear up a principal
Tear up a principal? By just asking her what is going on -- in her own school?
Part of the job. I have met her. No problems with her.
She is experienced in the business.
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and sue the crud out of an organization run by volunteers that MIGHT be purposely ignoring you.
Sue the Crud?
This stuff never sees court.
When top admin lawyers come in, they say -- OMIGOD, You Are Doing What? And then graceful tell the top-end to get a brain, and charge them some few hundred thousand dollars to do so. Count it as tuition.
The top-end then announces some great breakthrough leadership insight and improved methods, and acts sane until someone else has to correct / update them for something else.
Sadly enough, that is how progress is made. Not that big of deal. Just someone has to push the button to get the machine to start.
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You have no one to vouch for you and you stand to gain a reputation as a total hot head.
So we do need references for a kid to be in Girl Scouts?
Have we really left reality this far behind?
Man, who knew? Help me out here, what about a credit score?
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You are correct that your daughter is lucky she *has* a father but this is a pretty low bar, isn't it? Simmer down.
That's all I'm saying .
You follow I am largely having fun and laughing at the totally bizarre situation and ridiculous operation?
But real numbers on the "involved father" thingy -- down in the 'hood, even the existence of the father rate is about 50% or less.
Up here there is about a 25% to 50% show-up rate or so, I would reckon from what I am seeing.
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Parents are careful these days. Be sure you don't paint yourself poorly. Win the battle, lose the war and all that. I loved the image of Thin Mints burning in the yard.
On the "careful" side of things, I do respect Girl Scouts immensely on that. They even further protect the kids (and the Corporate Folks, as well) by requiring that two leaders are present on all activities and meetings.
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I'm talking more about playdates, or the absence of them, and choosing your moments carefully.
But it sounds like you're more concerned with being right than developing strong relationships from where I sit. That could be so off base. But that's how it sounds.
You're new. Be sure to throw some positive interactions in so you're not just that hot head father wearing out a principal with a ton of demands on him.
Maybe I am missing something?
How is a simple "what is really going" question "wearing out a principal with a ton of demands?" T
Here it is -- If you would like, edits are welcome . . . .
=======================
Xxxxx Elementary School
Attn: Mrs. XXXXX, Principal
XXXX
XXXX, Texas 7xxxx
September xx, 2011
Dear Mrs. XXXXX,
We have recently applied for our daughter XXX, to join the XXXXXX Elementary School Girls Scouts as a Junior (4th Grade), but have been told that there were no slots available.
When we asked why that was, the Council first said they lacked enough leaders. However, XXXX (Mrs. Phil) has already volunteered to assist the school troop. She is a registered and cleared Girl Scout Co-Leader, already.
After that, the council folks said there are still no slots available, even with additional leaders. I have asked the Council if we could visit with the local school Girl Scout leaders, but they have told me that direct communication was not allowed.
I then visited with Mrs. XXXXX, the school counselor, for any insights, as we know that she has the mission to promote inclusiveness in the school. She has referred me to you.
Since Girl Scouts operate on and from the school, and our daughter is enrolled in your school, I was hoping that you could help us resolve why XXXx is not being allowed to join the local school troop.
We were specifically trying to get XXX with the school troop, as she is new to the school, and are also concerned that this problem may exist for other girls.
Thank you for your assistance.
Sincerely,
Philip T
President, HHOJDPTBESOASQ*.
=====================
* Hot-Head-Overbearing-Jackass-of-a-Dad Placing a Tremendous Burden on the Entire Social Order by Asking Simple Questions.
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I'm talking more about playdates, or the absence of them, and choosing your moments carefully. But it sounds like you're more concerned with being right than developing strong relationships from where I sit. That could be so off base. But that's how it sounds. You're new. Be sure to throw some positive interactions in so you're not just that hot head father wearing out a principal with a ton of demands on him.
