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The school Principal has NOTHING TO DO with Girl Scout troops. Nothing. Nada. Zip. Zero. Writing a letter to the school principal will only waste your ink/toner. Girl Scouts are not affiliated with the school other than troops are usually made up of girls from the same school. Most of the time, the principal has no idea who the troop leaders are unless they happen to be a parent of a child at that school.
The people you need to get into contact with are the Girl Scout staff. This would be either the service unit, or the Field Representatve (full time professional Scout) for the area. Also, watch for the annual "Scout Roundup" which is a new year kick-off that is how new Scouts are recruited. If this hasn't been held yet, it will be soon.
The school Principal has NOTHING TO DO with Girl Scout troops. Nothing. Nada. Zip. Zero. Writing a letter to the school principal will only waste your ink/toner. Girl Scouts are not affiliated with the school other than troops are usually made up of girls from the same school. Most of the time, the principal has no idea who the troop leaders are unless they happen to be a parent of a child at that school.
Sort of correct of in concept, as far as concepts or words go -- not so much in practice. There are all sort of ties and interactions between the school, the troop, and Girl Scouts because of what the actual practice becomes.
For example -- There are acceptable use matters for the site. Since it operates from the school if any actions violate school policy, there could be conflicts, there. There is involvement in various school activities.
I follow what you are saying -- but when what is said does not match what is done -- or the actual practice, as it were -- the problems come up in the practice.
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The people you need to get into contact with are the Girl Scout staff.
Done that.
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This would be either the service unit, or the Field Representatve (full time professional Scout) for the area.
And that, too.
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Also, watch for the annual "Scout Roundup" which is a new year kick-off that is how new Scouts are recruited.
Already done, they handed out fliers at the school, we have been, signed up, they accepted no new kids, and ours and others appear left out.
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If this hasn't been held yet, it will be soon.
Like mentioned we are well past that point.
All that was done before this discussion started.
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Real World Question for you?
Back in your days and your units how did you handle kids that were not placed into troops?
Back in your days and your units how did you handle kids that were not placed into troops?
I was a Field Rep for a year right out of college. As I mentioned earlier, the council I worked for no longer exists thanks to the GSUSA realignment several years ago. It was way out in west Texas.
In my areas, girls who were not able to be placed into troops just didn't get to be a Girl Scout. Sad, yes, but that's the reality. In the bigger councils now, such as GSNETX, they have the "Juliet" program that allows the girls to be an individual member and do council-wide activities as a non-troop scout. I actually was an "independent" scouts as a Cadette and Senior because there was no older girl troop in my area after about fifth grade. I still went to song workshops, went to summer camp, served as staff at day camp for younger girls, did equestrian programs, etc. but I did it by myself, not with a troop.
I will be very honest here: I had two towns in my field area where the well-established troops wouldn't allow new girls into their troops. These towns were well know to the Council for having GREAT programs, but when I actually went there and did the Roundups at the school, I found out the truth. Sadly, that meant those girls didn't get to do Girl Scouts. The council didn't force a leader to take more girls, and we were happy to have the ones we did have in the program. One of the small towns had a troop leader who moved away, and that meant there was no one to take her place. I considered doing it myself, but the town was a 3 hour drive away from HQ and the council couldn't afford to pay me the mileage and stay overnight to lead the troop. So, those girls went without.
I was a Field Rep for a year right out of college. As I mentioned earlier, the council I worked for no longer exists thanks to the GSUSA realignment several years ago. It was way out in west Texas.
In my areas, girls who were not able to be placed into troops just didn't get to be a Girl Scout. Sad, yes, but that's the reality. In the bigger councils now, such as GSNETX, they have the "Juliet" program that allows the girls to be an individual member and do council-wide activities as a non-troop scout. I actually was an "independent" scouts as a Cadette and Senior because there was no older girl troop in my area after about fifth grade. I still went to song workshops, went to summer camp, served as staff at day camp for younger girls, did equestrian programs, etc. but I did it by myself, not with a troop.
We have been joking whether documenting and publishing these Girl Scout business practices would qualify for Bronze, Silver, or Gold Awards? (for the Boy Scout types -- that is like the path to an Eagle).
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I will be very honest here:
Honest is generally a good thing.
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I had two towns in my field area where the well-established troops wouldn't allow new girls into their troops.
Yeeaaahhh.
I am finding that to be a pattern in some areas.
Sort of the point and premise of this thread.
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These towns were well know to the Council for having GREAT programs,
Anyone with Great Cookie Sales is a Great Program.
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but when I actually went there and did the Roundups at the school, I found out the truth.
Yeah, that difference between presentation and practice is where we wander into issues of Fraudulent Business Practices.
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Sadly, that meant those girls didn't get to do Girl Scouts.
Sure enough. Showing harm in this is going to VERY easy to do.
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The council didn't force a leader to take more girls, and we were happy to have the ones we did have in the program.
Sure.
Why would the Corporate Folks want to stop anything from a profitable business sector?
But that it is chronic and on-going is where we expand from mere negligence to more active issues.
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One of the small towns had a troop leader who moved away, and that meant there was no one to take her place. I considered doing it myself, but the town was a 3 hour drive away from HQ and the council couldn't afford to pay me the mileage and stay overnight to lead the troop. So, those girls went without.
A non-profitable non-profit area would have to be cut out.
Just business, after all.
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That's the reality...
Such as it is.
Another Two Real World Question for you?
Would you consider being an expert (paid professional) witness on these matters?
Do you know anything of these practices outside of Texas?
Would you consider being an expert (paid professional) witness on these matters?
My experience was in 1994-95 for a council that no longer exists. I wouldn't qualify as an expert witness. I would think you'd need to find someone who worked for the Tejas or GSNETx councils since their practices are likely to be different.
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Originally Posted by Philip T
Do you know anything of these practices outside of Texas?
Nope. I have never worked for another Girl Scout Council.
Please keep in mind that the Girl Scouts are a NON PROFIT ORGANIZATION, funded by DONATIONS, that depends on VOLUNTEERS for almost all of its programs. By sueing a Girl Scout council, you are wasting their resources on lawyers when they could be spending them on girls and programs. Believe me, their executive staff are not paid well enough for the jobs that they do!
My experience was in 1994-95 for a council that no longer exists. I wouldn't qualify as an expert witness. I would think you'd need to find someone who worked for the Tejas or GSNETx councils since their practices are likely to be different.
Will probably advertise for it. Thanks, anyway.
It is clearly still the practice, so it will not likely be hard to find.
But of course, advertising will bring even more negative attention to the situation.
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Please keep in mind that the Girl Scouts are a NON PROFIT ORGANIZATION, funded by DONATIONS, that depends on VOLUNTEERS for almost all of its programs. By sueing a Girl Scout council, you are wasting their resources on lawyers when they could be spending them on girls and programs. Believe me, their executive staff are not paid well enough for the jobs that they do!
Over all, it does not seem like they are getting much of a bargain from that executive staff you are talking about.
Basic Competence would have probably been a better bargain than being cheap. You would think it would much cheaper and smarter to simply follow the law and have open membership, huh?
So you really think they would actually attempt to defend a claim for refusing kids membership, rather than simply opening membership that they hold out and then refuse to the kids?
Have to tell you I would be surprised if that is the path this takes.
I have never seen any professional organization be THAT stupid.
But it looks like they are running stupid in other locales, as well >>>
If you'd put half this much effort into instead finding 4 more girls and one more leader, your kid could already be earning Try-Its or whatever.
But it's not about your kid anymore, is it?
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Since you've been praising the BSA so much, you should be educated a bit about them. Are you aware that the BSA is NOT an open organization? That they have refused to bestow Eagle Scout Awards due to kids' religious beliefs? I bet they left out that factoid at their sign-up meeting - agnostics need not apply.
The BSA has been sued over and over regarding its membership policies. Their right, as a private organization, to refuse service at will has been upheld by the US Supreme Court time and time again.
As a parallel organization to the GSA, you can draw a lot of conclusions about the outcome of legal action against the GSA by looking at these established precedents with the BSA. Not sure why you think the GSA would be held to a different standard. Your lawsuit will be DOA.
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For someone so concerned about being charged with harassment, this is a bit odd. To me, talking of suing the entire national organization (with little or no legal justification) due to the decision of 1 or 2 volunteer leaders constitutes harassment on a huge scale.
If you'd put half this much effort into instead finding 4 more girls and one more leader, your kid could already be earning Try-Its or whatever.
But it's not about your kid anymore, is it?
You hitting the beer already? You were supposed to wait for me.
How much effort do you really think I am putting into this? If it were billable hours, it would not be much.
I guess for the fourth and hopefully final time (?), my kid is still associated with a cross-town troop. We are just trying to get her in a troop in her school. Can you read cartoons? I can draw pictures if you still are not getting this.
It is a bunch of other kids who are not even getting into any troop.
As for the rest, as a (eww, ick) man, I am not welcome in recruiting, leadership, membership, or any of the rest.
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Since you've been praising the BSA so much, you should be educated a bit about them.
Probably so, but if you are teaching, I really think that beer or three could help me focus.
Just saying.
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Are you aware that the BSA is NOT an open organization? That they have refused to bestow Eagle Scout Awards due to kids' religious beliefs? I bet they left out that factoid at their sign-up meeting - agnostics need not apply.
Nor Martians, Neo-Nazies, Communist Spies, or known members of Al-Queda.
b u t . . . if nice normal little boys show up they do not take their names, sort them through and tell them to f-off, dooooo they?
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The BSA has been sued over and over regarding its membership policies. Their right, as a private organization, to refuse service at will has been upheld by the US Supreme Court time and time again.
Do you understand the concept of a . . . . s t r a w m a n?
As a parallel organization to the GSA, you can draw a lot of conclusions about the outcome of legal action against the GSA by looking at these established precedents with the BSA. Not sure why you think the GSA would be held to a different standard. Your lawsuit will be DOA.
If they were running parallel -- there would not be the presenting problem.
Tell me the truth. You really have been hitting the beer ahead of time?
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For someone so concerned about being charged with harassment, this is a bit odd. To me, talking of suing the entire national organization (with little or no legal justification) due to the decision of 1 or 2 volunteer leaders constitutes harassment on a huge scale.
I am not concerned about being charged with harassment. I am saying that I am not going to give them that "out," just to please your sense of how to be a pushy jerk.
I guess you sort of go downhill with that "to me" stuff. Ain't about you.
The concept you are trying to claim may be that it would be a frivolous lawsuit. One brought without merit. Not likely, but that can be presented as a defense.
But like I say, it would be damn silly for the National Organization to let this even see a Court Room to present that defense.
From what has been shown on this thread alone, it has been going on for over a decade -- just basic math puts that in the thousand of harmed girls. Not likely to be held frivolous.
You're obsessed. I've never seen such long-winded swings from vaguely reasonable to undeniably cra-zay. Have fun gathering your expert witnesses, Gollum.
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