Lovejoy ISD and Carroll ISD---pros and cons (Dallas, Fort Worth: apartment, renting)

[urbs]

We are moving to the Dallas area and commuting is not an issue. I am researching the areas and it seems the best place for my family is between Fairview/Lucas and Southlake. So much information has come up and I am thoroughly confused!! Please help me sort out the data.

Priority: good schools with small classes and individualized attention if a child needs help in certain areas,
larger lot size with breathing room (and a pool) in a family neighborhood with kids to play with, proximity to shopping, grocery, extra-curricular activities (dance, gymnastics, etc).

Our budget is between $500-$700k.

[TurtleCreek80]

Thoroughly research the "all Honors/AP track" high school concept in Lovejoy before buying there. Not everyone loves it and quite frankly, there is not another public school district in the area - aside from drama plagued Dallas ISD- that has so much negative publicity and a lot of critics.

Carroll ISD is a solid top-performer. They don't have as many uber elite students (Intel, NMSF, etc) at the very top of the high school class as Plano / Flower Mound/ HP/ privates, BUT it is a fantastic district with pretty good results over a long enough prior of time.

Class size is dictated by the state of Texas, not each district. It is max 25 for elementary school and up to 35 for grades 6-12. I would guess the average class size in most districts is around 18-22 for elementary and upper 20's for 6-12. Schools just don't have the budget to staff smaller class sizes voluntarily, so unless your kid is taking a less popular AP class or a third choice language (Latin, German), you're unlikely to come across classes much smaller than the above quoted range in any district.

Some teachers are better at individualized attention than others, even within excellent districts. It also depends on the class composition; with most special Ed students being mainstreamed now, I can tell you my teacher friends say most of their 1 on 1 time is with those students, not the middle or top performers/ abilities. In competitive districts, it is quite common for parents to supplement the classroom with enrichment activities and tutors (even for the smart kids).

[ChristieP]

Your wants are really describing Southlake. The area has some of the best shopping and retail in DFW, and your budget will afford you a very nice home. Also, Southlake is easily accessible to both Dallas and Fort Worth for cultural activities and fun. (It's only a 30-minute drive to either Dallas or Fort Worth's museums and cultural areas.) If you drove through Southlake, and then through Lucas, the difference is truly night and day... Plus, CISD has some really unique opportunities, such as some of the best athletics in Texas, and one of the country's best theatre programs.

Totally, 100% agree with TC about Lovejoy ISD and the criticism. To me, this seems to be a case of "where there's smoke, there's fire"

[DitsyD]

Originally Posted by urbs

We are moving to the Dallas area and commuting is not an issue. I am researching the areas and it seems the best place for my family is between Fairview/Lucas and Southlake. So much information has come up and I am thoroughly confused!! Please help me sort out the data.

Priority: good schools with small classes and individualized attention if a child needs help in certain areas,
larger lot size with breathing room (and a pool) in a family neighborhood with kids to play with, proximity to shopping, grocery, extra-curricular activities (dance, gymnastics, etc).

Our budget is between $500-$700k.

If I recall correctly, within the Lovejoy ISD boundaries, there is only one convenience store/bait shop, and that is in Lucas. No other shopping or dance or gymnastics or grocery stores. Depending on where one buys a home, some of that may be near and for other homes, all of that will be quite a drive.

[urbs]

I thought there was a new shopping center on Stacy Road with tons of stores/Whole Foods, etc. and that is in Fairview which is Lovejoy ISD. Is this correct?

[DitsyD]

Originally Posted by urbs

I thought there was a new shopping center on Stacy Road with tons of stores/Whole Foods, etc. and that is in Fairview which is Lovejoy ISD. Is this correct?

It is in Fairview, but not in Lovejoy ISD. Lovejoy's boundaries are pretty much all east of Angel Parkway/Meandering Way. As I said, depending on where you live in LISD, you might be close to shopping, but there is none in LISD.

Map of LISD

The fact of little commercial taxation will be a bearing on school taxes in LISD. Just saying.

The city and school district boundaries seldom match in the DFW area. You need to look at a map of the school district to find their boundaries before you settle on a house if the schools matter to you at all. Such as not all Plano schools are in Plano, some are in Murphy, Parker, Richardson, Dallas, Allen. Not all Plano residents attend Plano schools, some attend Frisco or Carrolton (or maybe Lewisville, I can't recall). Good Luck!

[synchronicity]

I know virtually nothing about Lovejoy ISD (other than the fact it has very good test scores, but still below the "top tier" ISDs), but agree with the other responses you've received about Southlake. It's an affluent, almost completely built out community that has some of the best shopping in DFW. We're not big shoppers, but it is nice to have a 5 minute drive to Central Market or Sprouts for groceries, or Container Store for stuff in the house, or Home Depot/Lowes or, of course, Costco, the suburbanite's mecca. We rarely buy clothing but there are plenty of places for that if we ever want to, from inexpensive to high end. The only place I wish was here was a Crate & Barrel (the location here closed over two years ago). There's also lots of dining - again not a big thing for us, but its here.

The Parks and Recreation department has many programs available for residents, especially for kids, at very reasonable prices. The library seems pretty good as well. In short, there are a wide array of amenities for residents to take advantage of. I'm sure the Lovejoy ISD area's offerings will improve as it gets built out, but Southlake has all of this now.

Schools are top notch, although as the ever-informative TC80 points out, the results at the very top end (number of National Merit Semifinalists, or "NMSF", for one thing) are less spectacular than you'd expect given the demographics of the area. That said, you can't argue with the results overall. There is a strong emphasis on athletics here as well - the Carroll Dragons football team has won numerous state championships - but this is Texas, you can't avoid high school football anywhere.

The mascot for ALL the schools in the district is the Dragon. I joke that if you move here and own a minivan or SUV, it's compulsory that you have one of the "Dragon" stickers (the dragon mascot within a silhouette of Texas) on your rear window.

You said commute was not an issue, but Southlake's relatively central location may be an advantage over Lovejoy. Southlake is not terribly far from Fort Worth if you want to go to the zoo or take in the other sights. It's very close to DFW airport if you travel out of town, and not THAT far from Dallas if you want to go in on a weekend to see the aquarium or museums or whatnot. Lovejoy ISD is way north of Dallas and is a trek to get into either downtown.

As you may have guessed, I live in Southlake. We moved in a few months ago after spending almost two years renting an apartment and researching the DFW area. We wanted "near the airport with good schools" and also looked seriously at houses in Colleyville or Grapevine, but found our best choice in Southlake. Like you we wanted a half acre, but our price range was just below yours (400-500K). Your price range should afford you many excellent candidates in the area.

Southlake does have a bit of a reputation for "bratty spoiled rich kids and the pretentious parents who enable them", but that appears to be overblown. The people in our area seem pretty down to earth and are not at all flashy, but we also live in an "older" (built early 90's. This is DFW, early 90's is "old". Don't laugh) area, so we may not be representative. Our experience with the elementary school indicates there may be a little bit, but that's the case in any "affluent" area.

Just one person's opinion, but so far we're very happy that we chose to purchase here. Your mileage may vary and all that.

[synchronicity]

Forgot to add - Southlake in general is very kid-friendly, with a high percentage of households with children (no surprise given the emphasis on the school system here). At the elementary school bus stop alone there are about ten kids, all living within a block of us. Obviously, each neighborhood is different, but for the most part it's NOT fiftysomethings with college age kids living here, but lots of younger parents with school-age children.

[BiGeek]

You'll get more bang for your buck in Lovejoy ISD but that's going to cost you in other ways.

[DitsyD]

There are no public libraries within LISD.

Many of the homes within LISD use septic sanitation.