DFW High Schools ranked by SAT 2012-2013 (Dallas, Austin: fit in, home)

[Walter Benjamin]

Totally fascinating! And...

How much of the year-to-year change is fluctuation, and how much represents a longer-term trend?

How much of the change is demographic, and how much does a given school over- or under-perform its demographics?

Are there anomalies in comparing the rankings by NMSF vs. by SAT vs. by AP? Maybe a stats wizard like Synchronicity will tell us...

The geographical trends are stark. Among the top schools, only one south of the airport (HP), only one east of 75 (Lovejoy), only one north of US-380 (Celina).

Irving, Lancaster, Cedar Hill, DeSoto, West Mesquite are all low-ranking, as suburbs go.

Compare to the scores from 2008:
Dallas, Texas Area School Information: 2008-2009 - Average SAT Scores - By High School

Descending in rank: Arlington Martin (was #15), Garland (was #17), The Colony (was #18). Also Denton and Lake Highlands, which were tied for #21 with Frisco in 2008. Just four years later, Frisco is up to #17 while LHHS is down to #46 and Denton to #58. The trend is: older settlements decline, newer ones rise?

[Ramona72]

Yes, when you include magnets, TAG and SEM are #1 and #3. It is still beyond me why people would not consider these schools for their children.

1917 - Talented/Gifted magnet (Dallas)

1792 - Highland Park (Highland Park)
1779 - Science/Engineering magnet (Dallas)

1737 - Uplift North Hills (charter)
1736 - Westlake (charter)
1723 - Carroll (Southlake Carroll)
1715 - Plano West (Plano)
1700 - Coppell (Coppell)

[clickbear]

You can see that most years the property values rankings of certain areas are closely connected as the "hot" areas as well most of the time.....I'm still not sure how they determined Sherman was DFW since you might as well be in Oklahoma IMO.

For the Dallas TAG schools, I wonder how many of those students were in DISD K-12, or started private school and then transferred. There are limited options for the TAG programs until higher elementary grades.

[ChristieP]

Originally Posted by Ramona72

Yes, when you include magnets, TAG and SEM are #1 and #3. It is still beyond me why people would not consider these schools for their children.

I think the hesitation is that not all children who apply get into those schools, and since you have to live in DISD, there is a risk that your child may not get in, and then you'd be stuck with them having to attend the no-good school in your neighborhood.

I do find it somewhat funny that Woodrow Wilson is SO far down on the list. Lakewooder is always hyping it to be as good as Plano West, but the SAT scores show it really is not.

I will say I am happy to see that both Grapevine and Colleyville Heritage are high on the list.

[EDS_]

Originally Posted by LakeDad

I don't believe you are correct. Initially, the new SAT writing score was not widely used. But now, I believe a majority of schools do use it and especially the top schools. As a random check, I googled the UC system, Stanford, Dartmouth, Northwestern and Brown. All use it. If you want to use the ACT instead, all of these require the ACT plus Writing.

Also, the Writing section, a 25 minutes essay plus a large section of multiple choice questions, is the most predictive section for freshman grades (according to the College Board.)

With respect, I didn't say schools don't require the writing portion - I sad MOST give it no or little weight.

I've been through all of this twice over the last few years. My son applied to at least a dozen schools ranging from Texas and Baylor to Rice, Notre Dame, Duke, Washington University and some other great schools. The near universal refrain from the admissions types was more or less, "we require that students complete the writing portion but we give it no/very little weight or we use it as a tie breaker/only pay attention when the writing is well out of step with the other scores" - things like that.

My daughter is going through the same now. She's been accepted to Dartmouth BTW, there's a sports angle as well so she got a lot of attention paid to her/our questions and again they indicated that Math and Verbal are given significantly more weight than the writing. She's probably going to go there FWiiW.

I'd also wager a significant sum, maybe $5, that the math portion of that SAT/ACT is a better predictor of freshman success among those who head into STEM or math intensive fields (econ. finance etc.). I'd further bet that the math subject tests become a better predictor than writing for those who apply to programs at schools that require/strongly suggest them for certain study areas.

In a very simple way it makes sense that the writing is given less weight most everywhere. The hundreds of thousands of writing samples are graded by lots of different people so the numbers are going to be at least somewhat variable. Even if a school wants to read the individual writings of its applicants how many have the manpower to do so?


Back to writing for a moment. My son is now in medical school. The writing portions of the MCAT, two essays I think, are graded out with a letter that follows the numerical score. Medical schools don't much care about this writing portion either according to everyone he's asked.

Edit To Add - it appears the writing portions of the MCAT are so little valued they are being dropped either this year or next.

[TurtleCreek80]

Originally Posted by Ramona72

Yes, when you include magnets, TAG and SEM are #1 and #3. It is still beyond me why people would not consider these schools for their children.

1917 - Talented/Gifted magnet (Dallas)

1792 - Highland Park (Highland Park)
1779 - Science/Engineering magnet (Dallas)

1737 - Uplift North Hills (charter)
1736 - Westlake (charter)
1723 - Carroll (Southlake Carroll)
1715 - Plano West (Plano)
1700 - Coppell (Coppell)

I think most people wouldn't hesitate to send a kid to SEM or TAG; the issue is actually getting in. Between the two schools, there is a 9th grade class of approx 200 total. Out of, what, 15,000 9th graders in DISD? Even if just the top 5% of 9th graders apply, that's an acceptance rate of approx 25%. About the same chance as getting into the elite private schools. Hardly a lock. The only "lock" in DISD is your neighborhood school, of which 80-90% absolute suck. That's a pretty sobering reality.

[TurtleCreek80]

Originally Posted by clickbear

You can see that most years the property values rankings of certain areas are closely connected as the "hot" areas as well most of the time.....I'm still not sure how they determined Sherman was DFW since you might as well be in Oklahoma IMO.

For the Dallas TAG schools, I wonder how many of those students were in DISD K-12, or started private school and then transferred. There are limited options for the TAG programs until higher elementary grades.

From what I've read, as many as 30-45% of 9th graders at DISD magnets are actually "new to district". I'm not sure if living in Dallas but attending private school is classified as new to district or if those are purely new students from the suburbs or new to the area completely. Either way: it is a HUGE chunk of magnet kids who did not do K-8 in DISD.

[LakeDad]

Originally Posted by EDS_

With respect, I didn't say schools don't require the writing portion - I sad MOST give it no or little weight.

Congratulations to your daughter! Dartmouth is a great school.

I understood that you meant "most give it no or little weight." I think now most schools use it in a supplemental form and it's importance varies, but is increasing. At Notre Dame, they "combine your highest Math score from any sitting and your highest Critical Reading score from any sitting. We will evaluate your score on the writing portion, but it will be looked at separately from the Math and Critical Reading score out of 1600." In a highly competitive school, all supplemental info is important. Maybe that's just quibbling over a similar belief, but I thought there was a real difference.

A few state schools are even using it as an equal weight, requiring minimum scores on all three sections for in state and out of state applicants . The University of Florida comes to mind as one school who does this. Even at schools that are not very completive, it's use is increasing. At SF Austin, if you use the SAT as your admission pathway, they require a combined 1500 for admission.

At Dartmouth, applicants with a 600 to 690 (good scores!) on the writing are admitted 5% of the time, and applicants with a 700-790 are admitted 13% of the time. The 25th percentile SAT combined score at Dartmouth is 2040 (680 in each section). 75% of students admitted have that score or better. Maybe the reading and writing sections are simply strongly correlated, but if you don't do very well on the writing section, your absolute odds of getting in are greatly reduced.

I guess my reason for replying is that someone reading CD might think that their kid should not prepare vigorously for the SAT writing section (I know that you didn't say that!). That would be a mistake. All three sections are important, just not equally. As you mentioned, a significant discrepancy between the scores is also looked at negatively.

It's hard to know at any given school what the exact weight is; your daughter's experience is probably typical of highly competitive students, that it is given less weight than reading and math. I'm just not often hearing the "no weight" or "little weight" refrain that you mentioned from schools anymore, but more of the "it's something we use as an additional tool in our holistic approach."

[synchronicity]

Originally Posted by LakeDad

someone reading CD might think that their kid should not prepare vigorously for the SAT writing section

I continue to believe that best way to "prepare vigorously" for ANY portion of the SAT is to be an excellent student devoted to learning overall rather than focusing on any standardized test, and that the best time to start such "preparation" is around kindergarten.

(I know you're not focusing on the plethora of "test prep" courses and such that have sprung out in recent years like mushrooms in dark foggy woodlands. It's just my own personal axe I'm busy grinding).

[rantanamo]

Originally Posted by ChristieP

I think the hesitation is that not all children who apply get into those schools, and since you have to live in DISD, there is a risk that your child may not get in, and then you'd be stuck with them having to attend the no-good school in your neighborhood.

I do find it somewhat funny that Woodrow Wilson is SO far down on the list. Lakewooder is always hyping it to be as good as Plano West, but the SAT scores show it really is not.

Have you ever been to this area?