Should I relocate to Park Cities from California? (Dallas, Richardson: low income, mortgage)

[TheOverdog]

understand that Dallas is pretty drab outside of Park Cities

In my opinion, if you are really considering Dallas and have a high budget where you can afford private school, then the edge of White Rock Lake is miles above Highland Park in terms of best settings in Dallas. Check along W. Lawther Drive in Dallas TX for examples. Zillow says a $1.9m house looking right out on the lake is available. White Rock is the urban lake in E Dallas not too far from Highland Park, and doesn't allow motorized boats I don't think.

Highland Park is a nice place, but it is bounded by a tollway, has a medium sized university (with all the good and bad) and is very close to Love Field airport.

[Captain Harlock]

Originally Posted by TheOverdog

In my opinion, if you are really considering Dallas and have a high budget where you can afford private school, then the edge of White Rock Lake is miles above Highland Park in terms of best settings in Dallas. Check along W. Lawther Drive in Dallas TX for examples. Zillow says a $1.9m house looking right out on the lake is available. White Rock is the urban lake in E Dallas not too far from Highland Park, and doesn't allow motorized boats I don't think.

Highland Park is a nice place, but it is bounded by a tollway, has a medium sized university (with all the good and bad) and is very close to Love Field airport.

Thanks for the suggestion. Does proximity to a lake mean snakes? I'm aware from these forums that snakes are not uncommon in some areas of Dallas, particularly near creeks or other bodies of water. My wife is like Indiana Jones when it comes to snakes. (Luckily, we don't have any where we live now, though we do spot occasional lizards, which are unpleasant to look at.)

A related question: Is HP/UP mostly reptile-free? A trivial question, perhaps, but not for my wife.

[bencronin04]

Originally Posted by Captain Harlock

Thanks for the suggestion. Does proximity to a lake mean snakes? I'm aware from these forums that snakes are not uncommon in some areas of Dallas, particularly near creeks or other bodies of water. My wife is like Indiana Jones when it comes to snakes. (Luckily, we don't have any where we live now, though we do spot occasional lizards, which are unpleasant to look at.)

A related question: Is HP/UP mostly reptile-free? A trivial question, perhaps, but not for my wife.

Yes HP/UP is mostly reptile free. You may see a tiny house gecko on your front porch at night from time to time or a green anole in your garden once a year.

Also just a heads up your property taxes in Dallas will be higher that HP/UP, obviously lower end schools(so resale value is a little more risky but nothing major) and they use Dallas for all city services including Police and Fire so the average response time will be lower than HP/UP. Not knocking on Lakewood, just pointing out some of the negatives. The tollway statement is a little out there as you will probably not see it. Below are some pictures of the HP/UP area.

https://www.google.com/search?q=High...w=1920&bih=955

At the end of the day, Lakewood is defintely a close 2nd for me(to HP/UP) if I were to spend 2 million on a home in the Dallas area, with Bluffview coming in a close second.

[bencronin04]

OP here is a photo I just took from my office of UP/HP. To the left and behind the building directly in front of me is UP. To the bottom right of it, that little 6 lane blacktop road, is the tollway Overdog was referring to.

[TurtleCreek80]

Originally Posted by TheOverdog

Highland Park is a nice place, but it is bounded by a tollway, has a medium sized university (with all the good and bad) and is very close to Love Field airport.

Nice try.

1. Love Field is a non-issue unless one lives in the southwestern most 4500 blocks of HP (Westway, Fairway, and maybe Belfort). Other than that, no flyovers, no noise.

2. The Tollroad is a benefit, not a "BUT". Again, unless one lives in the last 10 or so houses closest to the Tollroad, there isn't any noise. There are sound barrier walls and a ton of trees planted to help absorb the noise. The benefit is one can work as far away as north Plano/ Frisco and be there in 15-20 minutes flat.

3. SMU brings far more good than bad. Again, unless you live within blocks of the campus, you wouldn't even know it was there. The programming such as the Tate Lecture series, Meadows Museum, and basketball and football teams on the rebound are awesome benefits, as are the universities libraries (ask any HP student in an AP course!) For advanced HPHS students, SMU's close proximity allows students to take college level math or science classes within the school day since its just a 10 minute drive from HPHS.

[serger]

Originally Posted by Captain Harlock

Thank you! Excellent reply, you pretty much nailed it! California is in decline. I adore Hawaii and have gone back on vacation many times over the years, but my wife and I don't think we want to live there and raise children. Plus, $2 million won't buy you much house there, unfortunately.

Since we don't have strong family ties beyond our own nuclear family, we hope to live in a place where we can make dear friends for life. The happy bubble of HP/UP is very appealing to me in this regard. I understand that Dallas is pretty drab outside of Park Cities, according to some, but I'm thinking that living in a lovely neighborhood with beautiful homes, parks, and well-to-do families who all know each other could make up for some of Dallas' other deficiencies. For the next 18 or so years, my wife and I will be wholly focused on child-rearing, anyway. Bubble life sounds good to me, with close access to shops and good restaurants. Believe me, we're so exhausted with baby-raising that having everything within easy reach is a huge boon.

On the other hand, I'm taking everyone's comments into consideration and plan to visit sometime over the next 5 or 6 months. I guess it all depends if a place feels like "home" or not.

Nowadays 2 million is not going to buy that much house in HP either.

[BigDGeek]

Originally Posted by Captain Harlock

On the other hand, I'm taking everyone's comments into consideration and plan to visit sometime over the next 5 or 6 months. I guess it all depends if a place feels like "home" or not.

You should visit sooner than that. Visit in August. Then, visit again in winter. We have more seasons here than you have in California, and there are few places in the US less visually-appealing than Texas in winter when the grass goes brown and dormant and the trees drop their leaves. It's hideous.

Originally Posted by Captain Harlock

A related question: Is HP/UP mostly reptile-free? A trivial question, perhaps, but not for my wife.

Nowhere in Texas is reptile-free, but you're not likely to wake up with snakes in your bed anywhere in the city.

[sgd08]

I'm from Dallas and lived in San Diego for 4 years. Even though I'm a liberal, I prefer Dallas over San Diego. San Diego was much more of a transient town to me. It was weird that for Christmas, nobody decorated their home in SD. Dallas is very family friendly and highland park/UP is very pretty. I think HP/UP parks are beautiful. And there are trees everywhere. I love that Dallas has change of seasons and that it does get cold sometimes and I can sit by the fire at night and drink a glass of wine. Also, to me, SD was very dry and didn't rain whereas it rains in Dallas and I enjoy thunderstorms and the moistness in the air. If I had $2 million to spend, I would definitely look into Dallas. Lots of American flags out front, some of the best restaurants in the country. There is white rock lake for biking and scenery if u need some outdoor time. Good luck with your decision!

[EDS_]

Here's why Texas/Dallas makes economic sense for everyone including wealthy people. Using COL index numbers.

Texas Cities v. California Cities:
100((91.8-128.1)/128.1) = -28.34% or Dallas is 28.34% less expensive than a California cities.

and 500,000x.2834 = 141,650.....500,000-141,650 = $358,350.

A $358,350 income in Dallas is equal in buying power terms to a $500,000 income in California and if we calculate state and local taxes the difference grows a little.



Texas Cities v. Hawaii Cities:
100((91.8-156.9)/156.9)) = -41.49%.

500,000x.4149 = 207,450......$500,000-207,450 = $$292,550

$292,550 income in Dallas = $500,000 in Hawaiian cities.



Texas Cities v. Arizona Cities:
100((91.8-101.9)/101.9) = -9.91%

500,000x.0991 = 49,550.....$500,000-49,550 = $450,450

$450,450 income in Dallas = $500,000 in Phoenix



So a family making a $X-big here can send do things their counterparts in other states can't given an identical income like fund a college education, save, send kids to private high schools, invest more etc.

[synchronicity]

Originally Posted by EDS_

Here's why Texas/Dallas makes economic sense for everyone including wealthy people. Using COL index numbers.

Texas Cities v. California Cities:
100((91.8-128.1)/128.1) = -28.34% or Dallas is 28.34% less expensive than a California cities.

and 500,000x.2834 = 141,650.....500,000-141,650 = $358,350.

A $358,350 income in Dallas is equal in buying power terms to a $500,000 income in California and if we calculate state and local taxes the difference grows a little.

Texas Cities v. Hawaii Cities:
100((91.8-156.9)/156.9)) = -41.49%.

500,000x.4149 = 207,450......$500,000-207,450 = $$292,550

$292,550 income in Dallas = $500,000 in Hawaiian cities.

Texas Cities v. Arizona Cities:
100((91.8-101.9)/101.9) = -9.91%

500,000x.0991 = 49,550.....$500,000-49,550 = $450,450

$450,450 income in Dallas = $500,000 in Phoenix

So a family making a $X-big here can send do things their counterparts in other states can't given an identical income like fund a college education, save, send kids to private high schools, invest more etc.

I don't disagree with the math, but...yeah, DFW is cheaper. We all get it. But, for me personally (for example), I'd rather pay the X more to be in Portland OR than here, because I value other things about Portland enough. The added cost would bring (to me) added benefits that would more than outweigh the costs. I can buy cheap "parmesan" cheese for a lot less than authentic parmigiano-reggiano (sp?), but I don't.

As someone who lives and dies by quantitative analysis, I'll repeat my oft-stated line: "numbers are easy, people are difficult".

In short, the OP should visit here, if at all possible at different times of the year, and for more than just a few days, to get a feel for the area and decide if it makes sense for them. An advantage of Dallas is the lower cost overall, to be sure. The OP may find other aspects of DFW to be advantages relative to other places that I or someone else might consider disadvantages, because De gustibus non est disputandum. In selecting a city you're basically selecting the "package" of all the city has to offer. Depending on the person, DFW could be "an incredibly good deal" or "cheap for a reason" (or somewhere in between). Or to sum it up, reactions of acquaintances about a recent episode of "House Hunters":

Person A: "that house has all that for only $X much, and it's in Dallas! Why does it cost so little?"
Person B: "Because...you have to live in Dallas."
Person A:
Person B: