Hockaday or Greenhill?? (Dallas: private schools, colleges, to move)

[Waterdragon8212]

This thread has gone a bit off the rails from the original sentiment, but I do have think people have strong opinions regarding same-sex versus co-ed schooling. Personally, I am interested to see if and how same-sex schools evolve alongside our emerging expansion of the definitions of gender and the increasing visibility of the LGBTQ+ community. Many of our same-sex schools here in Dallas are religiously based, so I'd expect there to be little change there. However, 2 of our most highly reputed schools, St. Mark's and Hockaday, are nonsectarian and single sex. Without the legal shield afforded to the religious institutions under the recent ruling in Texas, they will have to decide how they want to approach the notions of how they limit admission along gender lines (as well as what they do with kids they admitted in pre-K or 1st that come out as trans, non-binary, or gender non-conforming as adolescents.) There is a rapidly changing landscape in our world where gender is concerned and I'm curious to see how our systems of education adapt (or don't) to that evolution.

[stan4]

Originally Posted by calgirlinnc

And, regarding your previous post, about the educational models of the past 100 years....

back atcha.

Never said there wasn't a problem.

Just pointing out that schools have been the same for a long time (for better or worse). Not that I thought it was good or ideal. I personally suffered under the conveyor belt system our public schools employ.

[biafra4life]

Originally Posted by EDS_

I agree with quite a bit of that. However, I'd like to focus on the single sex schooling angle. From my perspective single sex schooling isn't much at all about some notion of protecting girls from boys. It's about personal preferences and small daily advantages for both boys and girls. Our son went to Jesuit - all boys and our daughter Ursuline - all girls and we know dozens of grads from both places and almost as many girls from Hockaday. Any notion that these kids are stilted, limited or socially or psychologically underdeveloped is just nonsensical gibberish. Boys not trying to impress girls or spend all their time thinking about girls is a key advantage for boys. Girls not feeling pressure to look their absolute best and impress boys at all times is an advantage for girls. I can't tell you how many times, dozens at least, my daughter would head off to Ursuline after a study/project all nighter looking like she had slept in a dumpster - there is 0.00% chance she would have done the same if boys had been around.

I'll go on record stating my belief that single sex education is more advantageous for boys than girls.

In one sense this conversation does not matter much. The marketplace has spoken, of the local single sex private schools St. Marks, Hockaday, Cistercian, Jesuit and Ursuline all are significantly oversubscribed and have been every year for many years. Apparently the same applies to the couple of local single sex publics as well.

Excellent points. I personally cannot argue against anything you just said with any conviction. Playing devil's advocate though, here I go:
I would question whether it's really wise to not have interaction with a group of the population that you will encounter on a regular basis later on in life. For example, I often have this argument with other black people who say they prefer their kids be in all black schools. I say why, even if your kid goes to an all black high school and then on to an HBCU, in the workforce it's VERY unlikely that he/she will be working in an all black company. In fact, odds are very much in favor of working in a company that is majority white. Therefore it's best to expose your kids to other races early on in time rather than have to learn some awkward or even painful lessons later on in life when the repercussions can be far more damaging.

By the same token, and in this I focus more on the boys, I think boys need to be around girls from an early age so as to learn the dos and donts. As men we all know that there are certain jokes and comments that are fine in the locker room but would be horrible if said in mixed company. Can boys learn these lessons if they never interact with girls on a regular basis during their formative years? We have seen a rash of both sexual and professional inappropriate behavior exposed in the national media lately. Could it be that a lack of training in how to deal with the opposite sex has played a part in this? Note that these are just questions I pose. Not saying I have definitive answers.

[biafra4life]

Originally Posted by TurtleCreek80

The fact that plenty of men don’t do those things does’t excuse the fact that many do. I’ve been in corporate America for almost 20 years and I’ve seen it all- the good and the bad. The existence of good men in tbe world doesn’t reduce a woman’s chance of encountering a sexist, degrading, dismissive, condescending or abusive one. The fact that my husband doesn’t do those things doesn’t erase the boss who evaluated men on male attributes and women on female attributes (“be sweet”, “volunteer to take notes and recap meetings more”, you “need a little more time before promotion” while promoting the idiot in tbe boys club who has 5 years less experience). The women who make it to SVP in my company are 50X smarter than 75% of their male counterparts. Railing against man bashing just gives covet to the bad men out there. Just like your beloved president railing against “both sides” gives cover to white supremicists.

Removing the distraction of boys (or girls in a son’s case) from the school day by middle / high school is a positive thing for both sexes IMO. FWIW, we have a son and I would love to see him at an all boys school by the middle school years.

And no, there isn’t a one size fits all education method. I was just disagreeing with UnfairPark’s assertion that single sex education is outdated in 2018.

First off, I guess I'm late to the party but I had no idea you are now a parent! Time flies. Please accept my belated congratulations!

Secondly, your points about men being degrading and so on is certainly warranted in many cases, and if those comments were really directed at you or other women then I would suggest HR needs to be pulled in ASAP. That being said, those anecdotal comments go both ways. Maybe it's just my field (accounting) but I've had way more female bosses than male, and the women are the worst bosses by a landslide. Heck, I have female co workers who readily confess that they would prefer to work under or with a male and NOT a female. I'm at the point where after years of horrible female managers, I now have a male boss again. And he's excellent. There are other managers in the office who are female, and guess what, no one likes them. I'm to the point where I honestly do not want to ever work under a female boss ever again if I can help it. Now I'm not saying there are no great female bosses, I just never met any after almost 15 years of working. I'm sure I'll be called a sexist pig for saying all this. Oh well. My blood pressure is the best its ever been now I don't have a female boss that I have to manage up on.

[EDS_]

Originally Posted by biafra4life

Excellent points. I personally cannot argue against anything you just said with any conviction. Playing devil's advocate though, here I go:
I would question whether it's really wise to not have interaction with a group of the population that you will encounter on a regular basis later on in life. For example, I often have this argument with other black people who say they prefer their kids be in all black schools. I say why, even if your kid goes to an all black high school and then on to an HBCU, in the workforce it's VERY unlikely that he/she will be working in an all black company. In fact, odds are very much in favor of working in a company that is majority white. Therefore it's best to expose your kids to other races early on in time rather than have to learn some awkward or even painful lessons later on in life when the repercussions can be far more damaging.

By the same token, and in this I focus more on the boys, I think boys need to be around girls from an early age so as to learn the dos and donts. As men we all know that there are certain jokes and comments that are fine in the locker room but would be horrible if said in mixed company. Can boys learn these lessons if they never interact with girls on a regular basis during their formative years? We have seen a rash of both sexual and professional inappropriate behavior exposed in the national media lately. Could it be that a lack of training in how to deal with the opposite sex has played a part in this? Note that these are just questions I pose. Not saying I have definitive answers.

Good post. That said, I am not aware of any data/studies that point to single sex education as a driver of men treating women badly or being unable to deal with women reasonably later on. With the explosion of single sex schools, especially publics, over the last 10-15 years we would have heard if negative linkage existed.

[UnfairPark]

Equality comes with inclusion. Let go of Catholic and Islamic practices. Let boys and girls think of each other as same species. Let them learn to naturally exist with each other.

[EDS_]

Originally Posted by UnfairPark

Equality comes with inclusion. Let go of Catholic and Islamic practices. Let boys and girls think of each other as same species. Let them learn to naturally exist with each other.

You are losing the argument. I just read that the number of single sex public schools in the US increased 25X (from 34 to 850+) through the 10 years ending in 2014.

And your implication that kids who attend single sex schools don't learn to exist naturally with the opposite sex is just nonsense.

[UnfairPark]

Radicalism is also on the rise and just because something is getting trendy, doesn’t mean it’s the best.

I’m making no such implications, those are your words. I’m only suggesting time for us to move on. It’s a new world. Gender, race, religion and class shouldn’t define and divide humans but unite and strengthen.

[jiping]

Just because something is getting trendy, doesn’t mean it’s the best.
It's time to move on from obsession with diversity.

Gender, race, religion and class will always define and divide humans.
Diversity is never a strength, but rather a challenge we will have to recognize and resolve.

[UnfairPark]

You are entitled to your opinion, i’m to mine. Diversity of opinions and thoughts makes a disscussion worthwhile and productive. If we all agreed to each other all the time, our monochromatic world would be really boring and human evolution would stop. We shouldn’t let race, religion, gender and class be bigger than humanity we all share. If we kept giving those forces power, they’ll keep defining and dividing us.