Is South Lake worth the price premium? (Irving, Southlake: home, buying)

[turf3]

Originally Posted by hbdwihdh378y9

No, it's not. In this country there really is no such thing as a class, but in countries where there are classes it's not primarily about wealth or income.

The USA absolutely has classes. They are clearly visible for those who have eyes to see. Different observers have divided them in different ways, but I adhere to Fussell's taxonomy:


Top-out-of-sight
Upper
Upper middle
Middle
High prole
Mid prole
Low prole
Destitute
Bottom-out-of-sight


Now obviously wealth (whether income, assets, or the combination) has a definite correlation with class, but it is not the determinant of class; attitudes, behaviors, education, and other social matters are.


The stereotypical example is to consider a plumber who left school in the 11th grade and through dint of hard work and intelligence now owns a large plumbing company, with a fleet of trucks and dozens of employees. In class, he probably remains high-prole, despite a high income and large assets. Now compare and contrast a professor at a small liberal arts college specializing in medieval French poetry. This person probably has a limited income and few assets yet his class is most likely upper middle due to attitudes, behaviors, and education.

[TheOverdog]

In class, he probably remains high-prole, despite a high income and large assets. Now compare and contrast a professor at a small liberal arts college specializing in medieval French poetry. This person probably has a limited income and few assets yet his class is most likely upper middle due to attitudes, behaviors, and education.

Wrong. Business owners (the 'plumber who runs a large plumbing company' is no longer a 'plumber') if they choose to do so, hold elected positions in most cities and convey power locally -all things they make them high class. Also, 'plumbers' have to work hours when higher-class people are not working, and have to convey all the front-end customer support of a Wal-Mart cashier in terms of disposition. Business owners do not.



Also the median 'professor' salary is $100k, whereas the median 'plumber' salary is $50k, fully 2X. The top end professor salary is close to 4X. The median salary of a 1-person plumbing company, ie: the plumber is the business owner and therefore has to cover marketing, accounting, sales, do most of the work, and doesn't get paid when on vacation, and has to convey various professional licenses is $100k. Put more simply, the 1 person plumbing company business owner has to work way harder for the same income than the professor does.



However this are classes in the US. It's very easy to see: In unpretentious far north Dallas (LOL) a broke small business owner (her words) conveyed the governor and attorney general to get out of jail for an offense than suburbanites typically wield to keep undesirable business out of their communities. That's the class difference.

[turf3]

Money is not class.


All your examples are about money except the last one which is incomprehensible.


Do you really think that having an elected position confers a higher class status?


Read Fussell's book.

[turf3]

In fact, the discussion right here indicates a lot of class distinctions.


Why, do you suppose, there are people who live in small old houses in places like Lakewood, who would never dream of even looking into living in a place like Southlake? Do you really think everyone in Kessler Park or on Tokalon Drive wishes they could afford to live in Southlake? Do you really believe the reason a house in Lakewood might sell for $700k and a newer bigger house in Garland would sell for $250k, is just because it's closer to downtown? How, then, do you explain the same house off Samuell Blvd. selling for $180k? Why do you think people choose to pay a premium (way more than Southlake) in Preston Hollow since the local public schools are lousy? What do you think happens when a residential area "gentrifies" - i.e., people move in and buy up old houses and re-do them and property values skyrocket? (example: M streets. The same houses in 1970 and today. Local public schools are, if anything, worse than in 1970. Yet property values have grown almsot incomprehensibly.)

[AlecZTexan]

Well, we may take a look of things in a dynamic manner. SL was established pretty recently, whereas HP, Kessler Park, Preston Hollow, Lakewood communities in Dallas have longer history. I feel SL will have a good appreciation potential over time.

[naterator]

Originally Posted by TheOverdog

Wrong. Business owners (the 'plumber who runs a large plumbing company' is no longer a 'plumber') if they choose to do so, hold elected positions in most cities and convey power locally -all things they make them high class. Also, 'plumbers' have to work hours when higher-class people are not working, and have to convey all the front-end customer support of a Wal-Mart cashier in terms of disposition. Business owners do not.



Also the median 'professor' salary is $100k, whereas the median 'plumber' salary is $50k, fully 2X. The top end professor salary is close to 4X. The median salary of a 1-person plumbing company, ie: the plumber is the business owner and therefore has to cover marketing, accounting, sales, do most of the work, and doesn't get paid when on vacation, and has to convey various professional licenses is $100k. Put more simply, the 1 person plumbing company business owner has to work way harder for the same income than the professor does.



However this are classes in the US. It's very easy to see: In unpretentious far north Dallas (LOL) a broke small business owner (her words) conveyed the governor and attorney general to get out of jail for an offense than suburbanites typically wield to keep undesirable business out of their communities. That's the class difference.

What?

[DFWUser1]

Originally Posted by justsomeguy

What is so great about it?

What would be minimum recommend HH income to afford a decent family home there?

How does Colleyville or Keller or any other nearby areas compare to South Lake?

Wow, for this question, this thread came a long way with so many irrelevant posts.

Ok - what is special about Southlake? - new money - uniformly affluent for the most part - you can see the affluence clearly - obviously very nice, large lots, upscale shopping, good schools. There is some pride associated with living in Southlake and Westlake - next only to Park Cities in DFW area.

recommended HH income? This is subjective - What's your lifestyle? do you want to just buy a house there and live a middle class life? Do you want to be part of the remaining? want everything expensive? it's all subjective. In general if you want to feel that you belong there, I feel - HH income upwards of $400000 (it's not that much after taxes, property taxes, other maintenance expenses and then to withstand the standard of living - expensive cars, expensive everything) with some solid backing is needed to withstand the lifestyle and other life's events - say a job/income loss etc. - Doesn't mean everyone needs to have that much income or assets - it's based on everyone's lifestyle.

Colleyville is one step below Southlake in terms of everything.

Keller is even one step below Colleyville

So, if one doesn't have budget constraints and if the location suits for commute - Southlake is a terrific option. There is nothing not to like about Southlake unless you doesn't fit in.

So, if you CAN afford, IT IS worth the premium.
Is it worth to pay premium if you need to stretch beyond your limit and be house poor just to be in Southlake? NO

[biafra4life]

I've been on this forum for a few years now. Every so often a thread just like this pops up and goes through the exact same round of very predictable actions:
1) Someone asks about Southlake (or Frisco, or insert hot burb here)
2) People from the "old money" areas like Highland Park, Preston Hollow and Lakewood look down their noses and bark about it being out in the boonies, new money, blah blah
3) People from Southlake immediately get triggered and "clap back" You will here something about people living in/next to the ghetto, jealousy, blah blah
And round and round we go.

Simple fact: Southlake is a great place to live. Low crime, high dollar homes, great schools. And if you need quick access to DFW airport, it's great. Certainly ONE of the top places to live in DFW.
Second simple fact: It aint the only game in town. Plenty of suburbs that have at least neighborhoods that will match (and in some cases exceed) the wealth of Southlake. Check out Willow Bend in Plano, or Starwood in Frisco, or you can check out the million dollar homes on acreage in Lucas and Fairview...and we havent even spoken about the Park Cities or Preston Hollow and the other Dallas neighborhoods. Plus if your job is downtown Dallas, or Legacy area of Plano, then Southlake is a horrible choice.

Point being, there is plenty of wealth scattered all around the metroplex. If you have the money, you have plenty of options based on whatever suits you best. To claim that Southlake is the premier spot is incredibly subjective. It would depend entirely on what you prefer. But the world doesnt begin and end with Southlake. Plenty of options around if you have the money.

And you just might find that Southlake had you at hello. Great. Whatever floats your boat.

[justsomeguy]

Originally Posted by DFWUser1

Wow, for this question, this thread came a long way with so many irrelevant posts.

Ok - what is special about Southlake? - new money - uniformly affluent for the most part - you can see the affluence clearly - obviously very nice, large lots, upscale shopping, good schools. There is some pride associated with living in Southlake and Westlake - next only to Park Cities in DFW area.

recommended HH income? This is subjective - What's your lifestyle? do you want to just buy a house there and live a middle class life? Do you want to be part of the remaining? want everything expensive? it's all subjective. In general if you want to feel that you belong there, I feel - HH income upwards of $400000 (it's not that much after taxes, property taxes, other maintenance expenses and then to withstand the standard of living - expensive cars, expensive everything) with some solid backing is needed to withstand the lifestyle and other life's events - say a job/income loss etc. - Doesn't mean everyone needs to have that much income or assets - it's based on everyone's lifestyle.

Colleyville is one step below Southlake in terms of everything.

Keller is even one step below Colleyville

So, if one doesn't have budget constraints and if the location suits for commute - Southlake is a terrific option. There is nothing not to like about Southlake unless you doesn't fit in.

So, if you CAN afford, IT IS worth the premium.
Is it worth to pay premium if you need to stretch beyond your limit and be house poor just to be in Southlake? NO

Thanks - this is kind of info I was looking for.

[Katana49]

I considered buying in Southlake once upon a time, in 2010. Back then our budget was $350k, and there were quite a few homes that were affordable, now those same homes are $500-600k. Ultimately decided against it, as the main reason to move there was so my wife would be close to work, but I would have had a commute to Plano. Since I made more money, and we had plans to start a family soon and she'd be quitting, ultimately it didn't make sense to move there.


It's definitely an area that has appreciated in value very well though, I used to be out in Westlake a lot for work, and there was very little out there in 2005. It's completely different now.