Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Hi escanlan, Sorry, looks like I missed to reply once again.
Quote:
Originally Posted by escanlan Starting from top to bottom on your questions.
Most likely they were Post Tension Cables. These would be run across the foundation pad left to right and front to back. As long as there is no standing water or significant mud puddles, the trench walls have not caved in any, and no other damages have been caused then it should be acceptable to pour.
Thanks for confirming, yes they are the same. There is no standing water, but since this a rainy week, they have delayed the slab pour until next week. The concrete shortages also helped with the delay.
If they did not cut drainage trenches then they may well have hand scooped the majority of water out to allow the small amount remaining to dry out fast. Or they may already have backfilled the drainage trenches to prepare for pouring.
Yes, I saw signs of drainage trench backfilling since the second time it rained. It has rained like 4 times now
I always recommend a buyers obtain their own third party inspection. No matter how the Builder responds to the Inspector's report items you have it documented by a Third Party if what the Builder does not correct causes or is suspected to cause issues later. Problems may even surface during construction as a result of any uncorrected issues. The pre-pour can help explain some of those issues. Yes water in trenches, the conditions of trench bottoms and side walls and a whole lot of other items are checked for during a proper pre-pour inspection.
You made some very good points. I took your advice, and I am now buying a 3rd party inspection package for 3 phases (pre pour, pre dry wall and final inspection). Earlier, I only planned to go for the latter 2 of the 3.
For lumber drying it is preferable to be at/below 18% moisture content before framing starts. In the article I linked to the drywall installation person likes the 12% - 14% moisture content mark to help prevent issues to drywall application from shrinking and wet lumber. Most lumber will stabilize around 8% - 14% over time.
The first two products have some degree of water resistance (I was just going by their website, Please correct if i am wrong), can't seem to figure out what the 3rd one actually is.
And regarding the lumber, I have seen 1 or 2 of the poles actually sticked out like sore thumb probably with all the back to back wet and dry cycles. I hope the 3rd party inspector will notice if there is anything wrong with them.
Unfortunately this manufacturer has chosen not to print or provide their storage requirements for their sheathing products. Supposedly once installed they are rated for a very short period being exposed to rain as their purpose is to shed rain. However before installation they should be covered to prevent damage to them and extensive exposure to rain after installation can still affect their efficacy. Depending on what I see on site at the inspection I would most likely recommend to the client that they have the Builder produce the manufacturer storage requirements displaying they stored it properly AND have the Builder's Engineer review the material to ensure its structural ability and weather resistive barrier ability has not been compromised. For the Engineer review I would also recommend the client obtain the Engineers signed inspection report to that affect.
Sorry again, for misleading on the sheathing brand. But based on the updated sheathing brand above, I think they are somewhat water or moisture resistant, please comment on that. Since I am opting for the pre-pour and raw materials inspection, hoping that will help as well
During a pre-pour inspection there is typically no reason to perform any humidity testing as it has little to nothing to do with the foundation pour. However having said that a good Inspector would review any other materials on site and make at least mention in the report their condition as they see it. Better for the client to note it then than after the potentially damaged materials are used.
Yes, looks like there is no incentive for the inspector to do any test, as a default. However, I requested the 3rd party inspection agency to specifically check up on the lumber and sheathing that is sitting on the lot and they obliged.
Sorry for the spurious line at the end as it was in the middle of an edit and should have been deleted. In any case to answer your "why this was not done" question I expect it was indicating why the Builder did not lift the materials up and cover them to protect it from rain. In 17 years of inspecting that was a very RARE thing to do except one builder who ALWAYS did it. At least they always did until they were bought out and then they went to doodie in a hand basket! They don't do it because it takes proper delivery planning, additional time, and additional expense which all equals more money. Building today is about "less money" for building and "more money" for profit!
No worries. Thanks for letting me on the insider tidbits, especially with the current market conditions where builders have a tremendous edge and the general market sentiment that having a contract itself is being considered as a huge privilege, there is no wonder builders can get away with what they can.
With all of this rain your Inspector should be inspecting for caving in of trenches. Also make sure the backfill was the drainage trench and not the trenches within the form boards.
With regards to the sheathing the OX Engineered Products does specify proper handling and storage in their installation instructions here https://www.oxengineeredproducts.com...ct/thermo-ply/. Also on that page are their Technical Evaluation Reports for each version. It's worth reading through them to gain a better understanding so you can also see if the Builder is installing it correctly. I find many issues with sheathing installs. One that is not clearly covered in any of their documents is how the material is to be installed to meet the air barrier requirements. The water resistive barrier (WRB) requirements are clearly spelled out in their docs. However the builder docs for the AB refers you to the building codes section N1102.4.1.1 in the IRC (and companion IECC). These can be viewed for free here https://codes.iccsafe.org/codes. You can go to your local Building Inspection Department WEB page to determine which code cycle (code year) the Builder is required to follow. The section above, and its companion table, do specify that to meet the AB requirements all seams must be taped.
There are several versions of the Barricade Thermo Brace product and not sure which you have. Their technical documentation can be found here https://barricadebp.com/downloads. I did not find any directions for storage and the AB requirements appear to be the same as OX Thermoply.
The GP product you are describing appears to be the GP BlueRibbon OSB which can be used for walls, roof sheathing, or even second floor sub-floor. I have also seen OSB used on walls with the OX or Barricade product over it for the water resistive barrier instead of a wrap. At this point I would expect it to be used probably as the roof sheathing. GP appears to defer to the APA installation guidelines and you can find those on GP site here https://buildgp.com/resources/?s=&st...ource_type-12#.
The first two products typically come wrapped to protect them from the elements. It is expected that they stay wrapped and protected from the elements. The sheathing is not typically wrapped but may be depending on the supplier and how much was purchased. APA does specify proper handling and storage of APA rated panels. You can find that information as well as a wealth of other information on the APA Doc library here https://www.apawood.org/resource-library . Creating a login is free for downloads and they are very good publications.
The wood sheathing is not moisture resistant and must always be protected. The OX and Barricade products are not intended for exposure until installed and only short term exposure.
As for the rest of the dimensional lumber if you se something out of place make sure you do point it out to the Inspector. If they have guaranteed they will check it out make sure they do.
With all of this rain your Inspector should be inspecting for caving in of trenches. Also make sure the backfill was the drainage trench and not the trenches within the form boards.
Thank you, yes, i will ask them to be extra vigilant of that.
With regards to the sheathing the OX Engineered Products does specify proper handling and storage in their installation instructions here https://www.oxengineeredproducts.com...ct/thermo-ply/. Also on that page are their Technical Evaluation Reports for each version. It's worth reading through them to gain a better understanding so you can also see if the Builder is installing it correctly. I find many issues with sheathing installs. One that is not clearly covered in any of their documents is how the material is to be installed to meet the air barrier requirements. The water resistive barrier (WRB) requirements are clearly spelled out in their docs. However the builder docs for the AB refers you to the building codes section N1102.4.1.1 in the IRC (and companion IECC). These can be viewed for free here https://codes.iccsafe.org/codes. You can go to your local Building Inspection Department WEB page to determine which code cycle (code year) the Builder is required to follow. The section above, and its companion table, do specify that to meet the AB requirements all seams must be taped.
I read through ThermoPLY storage instructions and found below, which is concerning as none of the instructions were followed.
Maintain packaging protection until using the product. If stored exposed without protective packaging, cover with waterproof tarpaulin. Do not store directly on the ground unprotected or in standing water. Normal care should be taken to avoid excessive moisture exposure (soaking) to unpackaged product
I tried to read through the Technical Evaluation for red product, but it became too technical and jargony, to make much sense for me. I believe the same will happen with me going through the ICC building codes for air barrier, but I will make note to look for taping of sheathing during installation and ask about it to builder, if not done already. I will also try to look for taping on existing homes by same builder, to get an idea.
There are several versions of the Barricade Thermo Brace product and not sure which you have. Their technical documentation can be found here https://barricadebp.com/downloads. I did not find any directions for storage and the AB requirements appear to be the same as OX Thermoply.
I have the green product and I did not find any storage requirements either, does that mean they are better resistant to elements ? As for the AB, I will again look out for taping.
The GP product you are describing appears to be the GP BlueRibbon OSB which can be used for walls, roof sheathing, or even second floor sub-floor. I have also seen OSB used on walls with the OX or Barricade product over it for the water resistive barrier instead of a wrap. At this point I would expect it to be used probably as the roof sheathing. GP appears to defer to the APA installation guidelines and you can find those on GP site here https://buildgp.com/resources/?s=&st...ource_type-12#.
Yes, it is probably roof sheathing, and i will check their storage guide.
The first two products typically come wrapped to protect them from the elements. It is expected that they stay wrapped and protected from the elements. The sheathing is not typically wrapped but may be depending on the supplier and how much was purchased. APA does specify proper handling and storage of APA rated panels. You can find that information as well as a wealth of other information on the APA Doc library here https://www.apawood.org/resource-library . Creating a login is free for downloads and they are very good publications.
The wood sheathing is not moisture resistant and must always be protected. The OX and Barricade products are not intended for exposure until installed and only short term exposure.
For some reason, the first two products were not wrapped, which is concerning me now. However the GP product, which i believe is the wood sheathing you are referring to, is stacked below the other two products, and had minimal/no water signs even after a heavy pour, which is a saving grace in all of this.
As for the rest of the dimensional lumber if you se something out of place make sure you do point it out to the Inspector. If they have guaranteed they will check it out make sure they do.
I will makes sure they inspect everything on the lot, and again, thank you for your suggestions.
Originally Posted by escanlan With all of this rain your Inspector should be inspecting for caving in of trenches. Also make sure the backfill was the drainage trench and not the trenches within the form boards.
Thank you, yes, i will ask them to be extra vigilant of that.
With regards to the sheathing the OX Engineered Products does specify proper handling and storage in their installation instructions here https://www.oxengineeredproducts.com...ct/thermo-ply/. Also on that page are their Technical Evaluation Reports for each version. It's worth reading through them to gain a better understanding so you can also see if the Builder is installing it correctly. I find many issues with sheathing installs. One that is not clearly covered in any of their documents is how the material is to be installed to meet the air barrier requirements. The water resistive barrier (WRB) requirements are clearly spelled out in their docs. However the builder docs for the AB refers you to the building codes section N1102.4.1.1 in the IRC (and companion IECC). These can be viewed for free here https://codes.iccsafe.org/codes. You can go to your local Building Inspection Department WEB page to determine which code cycle (code year) the Builder is required to follow. The section above, and its companion table, do specify that to meet the AB requirements all seams must be taped.
I read through ThermoPLY storage instructions and found below, which is concerning as none of the instructions were followed.
Maintain packaging protection until using the product. If stored exposed without protective packaging, cover with waterproof tarpaulin. Do not store directly on the ground unprotected or in standing water. Normal care should be taken to avoid excessive moisture exposure (soaking) to unpackaged product
I tried to read through the Technical Evaluation for red product, but it became too technical and jargony, to make much sense for me. I believe the same will happen with me going through the ICC building codes for air barrier, but I will make note to look for taping of sheathing during installation and ask about it to builder, if not done already. I will also try to look for taping on existing homes by same builder, to get an idea.
There are several versions of the Barricade Thermo Brace product and not sure which you have. Their technical documentation can be found here https://barricadebp.com/downloads. I did not find any directions for storage and the AB requirements appear to be the same as OX Thermoply.
I have the green product and I did not find any storage requirements either, does that mean they are better resistant to elements ? As for the AB, I will again look out for taping.
The GP product you are describing appears to be the GP BlueRibbon OSB which can be used for walls, roof sheathing, or even second floor sub-floor. I have also seen OSB used on walls with the OX or Barricade product over it for the water resistive barrier instead of a wrap. At this point I would expect it to be used probably as the roof sheathing. GP appears to defer to the APA installation guidelines and you can find those on GP site here https://buildgp.com/resources/?s=&st...ource_type-12#.
Yes, it is probably roof sheathing, and i will check their storage guide.
The first two products typically come wrapped to protect them from the elements. It is expected that they stay wrapped and protected from the elements. The sheathing is not typically wrapped but may be depending on the supplier and how much was purchased. APA does specify proper handling and storage of APA rated panels. You can find that information as well as a wealth of other information on the APA Doc library here https://www.apawood.org/resource-library . Creating a login is free for downloads and they are very good publications.
The wood sheathing is not moisture resistant and must always be protected. The OX and Barricade products are not intended for exposure until installed and only short term exposure.
For some reason, the first two products were not wrapped, which is concerning me now. However the GP product, which i believe is the wood sheathing you are referring to, is stacked below the other two products, and had minimal/no water signs even after a heavy pour, which is a saving grace in all of this.
As for the rest of the dimensional lumber if you se something out of place make sure you do point it out to the Inspector. If they have guaranteed they will check it out make sure they do.
I will makes sure they inspect everything on the lot, and again, thank you for your suggestions.
The ThermoPly and Barricade products can handle short duration's of exposure to the elements (mostly rain and other moisture events) but they can become damaged if exposed to long or if allowed to sit on wet ground. The manufacturers don't really say how long is to long and instead the products should be monitored for damage to them.
Your Inspector should be inspecting to the Building Codes, other applicable standards, and manufacturer requirements. The Inspector should be sufficiently fluent in these requirements to understand what is correct and incorrect, and answer your questions. So don't try to get to technical with the codes or manufacturer requirements. Besides most of the issues found typically on these sheathings are dumb things like improper fasteners/fastening, improper taping, damaged materials, etc. The more technical issues found are failure to follow the design/plans. Most times on site either the plans are not available or not complete but the Inspector should then revert back to the prescriptive requirements in the codes and advise to have the Builder to display the full plans and explain issues found.
The ThermoPly and Barricade products can handle short duration's of exposure to the elements (mostly rain and other moisture events) but they can become damaged if exposed to long or if allowed to sit on wet ground. The manufacturers don't really say how long is to long and instead the products should be monitored for damage to them.
Your Inspector should be inspecting to the Building Codes, other applicable standards, and manufacturer requirements. The Inspector should be sufficiently fluent in these requirements to understand what is correct and incorrect, and answer your questions. So don't try to get to technical with the codes or manufacturer requirements. Besides most of the issues found typically on these sheathings are dumb things like improper fasteners/fastening, improper taping, damaged materials, etc. The more technical issues found are failure to follow the design/plans. Most times on site either the plans are not available or not complete but the Inspector should then revert back to the prescriptive requirements in the codes and advise to have the Builder to display the full plans and explain issues found.
Yes, that is the major concern, as they have been sitting on the lot for 15 days atleast, the only saving grace is some of them are not on direct ground.
Thank you for the insights, hopefully that will be the case here
I was originally planning for inspection 24-48 hours before the pour, but the builder has informed that the concrete situation is so volatile, that an advance info to us may not be possible, but they have a good chance to pour ours in the coming week.
So, I am taking a shot in the dark and tentatively scheduled the inspection for coming Monday. Now, my question is "Is there any ideal # of sunny days between the rains and the inspection, so that they can find the maximum things wrong? " Looks like there are aren't any sunny days after the rain and before Monday.
Yes, that is the major concern, as they have been sitting on the lot for 15 days atleast, the only saving grace is some of them are not on direct ground.
Thank you for the insights, hopefully that will be the case here
I was originally planning for inspection 24-48 hours before the pour, but the builder has informed that the concrete situation is so volatile, that an advance info to us may not be possible, but they have a good chance to pour ours in the coming week.
So, I am taking a shot in the dark and tentatively scheduled the inspection for coming Monday. Now, my question is "Is there any ideal # of sunny days between the rains and the inspection, so that they can find the maximum things wrong? " Looks like there are aren't any sunny days after the rain and before Monday.
If the Inspector knows what they are doing and the trenches are not flooded they should be able to inspect and find all issues on Monday as long as the foundation is finished and ready for a pour.
If the Inspector knows what they are doing and the trenches are not flooded they should be able to inspect and find all issues on Monday as long as the foundation is finished and ready for a pour.
I sent you a PM, check it out.
An update, my foundation was poured before the inspector got there, so I had to cancel the pre-pour inspection. It appears the builder also used my lot as lumber storage for homes 2-3 lots down my street, so I am not sure yet if the chipped lumber bundle will be used on mine yet.
However, builder assured that they will not use it if its bad.
Thank you for all the information, really appreciate you taking time to reply.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
