View Poll Results: Do you think Dallas needs a third airport?
Yes
16 34.04%
No
31 65.96%
03-17-2023, 11:30 AM
Location: Lake Highlands - Dallas
702 posts, read
2,722,765 times
Reputation: 697
Quote:
Originally Posted by
bgNCATL
We keep hearing about the metroplex growing north to the Oklahoma border. Whenever that happens then we will need a second airport up that way. Yes I said second, because I think Love field is pointless where it is. It will need to shut down and move north! DFW can cover the lower metro while the new Love covers the north!
No way! We live in our area, because we factor proximity to the airport and I know many around us do the same. The same can be said about people who live around DFW. It would be interesting to know how many frequent travelers live in Collin County and what airport they use most. My guess is they use DFW via 121, so leave Love Field alone!
03-17-2023, 11:58 AM
679 posts, read
273,702 times
Reputation: 454
Quote:
Originally Posted by
albert648
Airports have never been located in downtown cores or anywhere near them for that matter. There's no rational reason to spend billions of dollars building a brand-new airport with all the supporting infrastructure that comes with it when you already have an existing airport with capacity to spare.
Whoah... Tap the brakes. You're getting a little carried away. No one is talking about spending billions of dollars or building a brand-new airport.
03-17-2023, 12:16 PM
5,264 posts, read
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Reputation: 6229
Quote:
No one is talking about spending billions of dollars or building a brand-new airport.
Sure they are. They are talking upgrading McKinney airport to commercial air service. Maybe it's not 'brand new', but it's a major upgrade.
03-18-2023, 09:10 AM
679 posts, read
273,702 times
Reputation: 454
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TheOverdog
Sure they are. They are talking upgrading McKinney airport to commercial air service. Maybe it's not 'brand new', but it's a major upgrade.
LOL. Indeed, not a brand new airport at all. And not Billions of Dollars.
03-18-2023, 10:41 AM
8,181 posts, read
2,789,696 times
Reputation: 6016
Quote:
Originally Posted by
oil capital
LOL. Indeed, not a brand new airport at all. And not Billions of Dollars.
It's not billions of dollars....YET. Governments universally overspend on projects like this and universally overstate the benefits of such a project and universally understate its costs, usually to the point of complete fiction.
If Delta Air Lines wants to pay for the upgrades out of its own pocket, knock yourselves out.
Last edited by albert648; 03-18-2023 at 10:50 AM ..
03-18-2023, 01:33 PM
1,376 posts, read
1,082,936 times
Reputation: 1226
Quote:
Originally Posted by
albert648
It's not billions of dollars....YET. Governments universally overspend on projects like this and universally overstate the benefits of such a project and universally understate its costs, usually to the point of complete fiction.
If this proposal were at all commercially viable, these big airlines would have started an advertising campaign for the bond proposal. The only people pushing for it are our pompous and corrupt city politicians.
03-18-2023, 01:43 PM
8,181 posts, read
2,789,696 times
Reputation: 6016
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Leonard123
If this proposal were at all commercially viable, these big airlines would have started an advertising campaign for the bond proposal. The only people pushing for it are our pompous and corrupt city politicians.
Which tells me this is nothing more than corrupt politicians wanting to set taxpayers' money on fire.
If it was commercially viable for the airlines, one of the big airlines would have paid for it in exchange for favorable lease rates or owning a stake in the new upgraded airport. A business case is far easier to get approved by a CFO or Board of Directors than a bond measure is to get passed in an election.
03-21-2023, 03:12 PM
679 posts, read
273,702 times
Reputation: 454
Quote:
Originally Posted by
albert648
It's not billions of dollars....YET. Governments universally overspend on projects like this and universally overstate the benefits of such a project and universally understate its costs, usually to the point of complete fiction.
Speaking of fiction... Nice strawman argument you made there. First you tell us there is no rationale for spending Billions of Dollars on a brand new airport. (That may or may not be true, but as pointed out a above, no one is planing either to spend Billions of dollars OR to build a new airport.)
Then you change your tune to a fiction that somehow they will end up spending billions of dollars (of course, STILL not building or planning to build a brand new airport, but who wants to dwell on facts?). If it ends up costing Billions of Dollars, that would be, at a bare minimum, 6 2/3 times the estimated price tag. Even for government work, that is highly unlikely, and in any event would almost certainly require them to go back to the voters to get the additional $1.7 Billion (minimum), if that price increase were to occur
How about we try to stick to the facts? Maybe there is (and maybe there isn't) a rationale for spending $300 Million to make upgrades to an existing airport to allow for commercial service. THAT is all that is proposed, NOT Billions of Dollars for a whole new airport.
Here's an article in today's
Dallas Morning News about the proposed project.
https://www.dallasnews.com/news/2023...sion-proposal/
03-22-2023, 07:16 AM
8,181 posts, read
2,789,696 times
Reputation: 6016
Quote:
Originally Posted by
oil capital
Speaking of fiction... Nice strawman argument you made there. First you tell us there is no rationale for spending Billions of Dollars on a brand new airport. (That may or may not be true, but as pointed out a above, no one is planing either to spend Billions of dollars OR to build a new airport.)
Then you change your tune to a fiction that somehow they will end up spending billions of dollars (of course, STILL not building or planning to build a brand new airport, but who wants to dwell on facts?). If it ends up costing Billions of Dollars, that would be, at a bare minimum, 6 2/3 times the estimated price tag. Even for government work, that is highly unlikely, and in any event would almost certainly require them to go back to the voters to get the additional $1.7 Billion (minimum), if that price increase were to occur
How about we try to stick to the facts? Maybe there is (and maybe there isn't) a rationale for spending $300 Million to make upgrades to an existing airport to allow for commercial service. THAT is all that is proposed, NOT Billions of Dollars for a whole new airport.
Here's an article in today's
Dallas Morning News about the proposed project.
https://www.dallasnews.com/news/2023...sion-proposal/
Fiction? All governments overspend on commercially unviable projects like this one. The initial budget is $300M. Add a digit for the actual at completion.
If there was any value proposition resembling commercial viability, the airlines would have been all over it already. There never has been, is not, and will not be any rationale for spending that kind of money at McKinney Airport unless they already have commercial service with one or two of the majors already lined up and the fees from that service are sufficient to pay off the project in a reasonable period of time - say 5-10 years.
03-22-2023, 08:23 AM
5,264 posts, read
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Reputation: 6229
Quote:
If there was any value proposition resembling commercial viability, the airlines would have been all over it already.
You are making that up, and DFW airport is owned and financed by both Dallas and Ft Worth, not by any of the airlines. They might occasionally spend a few bucks to improve the terminals, but it's mostly tax money. There was even a proposal floated (somewhat facetiously) to sell DFW to private investors because it's currently close to its maximum value, and to get it off city payroll.
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1996 Presidential Elections Results (%) - Democratic Party (Clinton)
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Urban houses (%)
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Industry diversity
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People in Group quarters - On base (%)
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People in Group quarters - Other noninstitutional group quarters (%)
Residents speaking English at home (%)
Residents speaking English at home - Born in the United States (%)
Residents speaking English at home - Native, born elsewhere (%)
Residents speaking English at home - Foreign born (%)
Residents speaking Spanish at home (%)
Residents speaking Spanish at home - Born in the United States (%)
Residents speaking Spanish at home - Native, born elsewhere (%)
Residents speaking Spanish at home - Foreign born (%)
Residents speaking other language at home (%)
Residents speaking other language at home - Born in the United States (%)
Residents speaking other language at home - Native, born elsewhere (%)
Residents speaking other language at home - Foreign born (%)
Class of Workers - Employee of private company (%)
Class of Workers - Self-employed in own incorporated business (%)
Class of Workers - Private not-for-profit wage and salary workers (%)
Class of Workers - Local government workers (%)
Class of Workers - State government workers (%)
Class of Workers - Federal government workers (%)
Class of Workers - Self-employed workers in own not incorporated business and Unpaid family workers (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Utility gas (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Bottled, tank, or LP gas (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Electricity (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Fuel oil, kerosene, etc. (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Coal or coke (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Wood (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Solar energy (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Other fuel (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - No fuel used (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Utility gas (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Bottled, tank, or LP gas (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Electricity (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Fuel oil, kerosene, etc. (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Coal or coke (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Wood (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Solar energy (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Other fuel (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - No fuel used (%)
Armed forces status - In Armed Forces (%)
Armed forces status - Civilian (%)
Armed forces status - Civilian - Veteran (%)
Armed forces status - Civilian - Nonveteran (%)
Fatal accidents locations in years 2005-2021
Fatal accidents locations in 2005
Fatal accidents locations in 2006
Fatal accidents locations in 2007
Fatal accidents locations in 2008
Fatal accidents locations in 2009
Fatal accidents locations in 2010
Fatal accidents locations in 2011
Fatal accidents locations in 2012
Fatal accidents locations in 2013
Fatal accidents locations in 2014
Fatal accidents locations in 2015
Fatal accidents locations in 2016
Fatal accidents locations in 2017
Fatal accidents locations in 2018
Fatal accidents locations in 2019
Fatal accidents locations in 2020
Fatal accidents locations in 2021
Alcohol use - People drinking some alcohol every month (%)
Alcohol use - People not drinking at all (%)
Alcohol use - Average days/month drinking alcohol
Alcohol use - Average drinks/week
Alcohol use - Average days/year people drink much
Audiometry - Average condition of hearing (%)
Audiometry - People that can hear a whisper from across a quiet room (%)
Audiometry - People that can hear normal voice from across a quiet room (%)
Audiometry - Ears ringing, roaring, buzzing (%)
Audiometry - Had a job exposure to loud noise (%)
Audiometry - Had off-work exposure to loud noise (%)
Blood Pressure & Cholesterol - Has high blood pressure (%)
Blood Pressure & Cholesterol - Checking blood pressure at home (%)
Blood Pressure & Cholesterol - Frequently checking blood cholesterol (%)
Blood Pressure & Cholesterol - Has high cholesterol level (%)
Consumer Behavior - Money monthly spent on food at supermarket/grocery store
Consumer Behavior - Money monthly spent on food at other stores
Consumer Behavior - Money monthly spent on eating out
Consumer Behavior - Money monthly spent on carryout/delivered foods
Consumer Behavior - Income spent on food at supermarket/grocery store (%)
Consumer Behavior - Income spent on food at other stores (%)
Consumer Behavior - Income spent on eating out (%)
Consumer Behavior - Income spent on carryout/delivered foods (%)
Current Health Status - General health condition (%)
Current Health Status - Blood donors (%)
Current Health Status - Has blood ever tested for HIV virus (%)
Current Health Status - Left-handed people (%)
Dermatology - People using sunscreen (%)
Diabetes - Diabetics (%)
Diabetes - Had a blood test for high blood sugar (%)
Diabetes - People taking insulin (%)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Diet health (%)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Milk product consumption (# of products/month)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Meals not home prepared (#/week)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Meals from fast food or pizza place (#/week)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Ready-to-eat foods (#/month)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Frozen meals/pizza (#/month)
Drug Use - People that ever used marijuana or hashish (%)
Drug Use - Ever used hard drugs (%)
Drug Use - Ever used any form of cocaine (%)
Drug Use - Ever used heroin (%)
Drug Use - Ever used methamphetamine (%)
Health Insurance - People covered by health insurance (%)
Kidney Conditions-Urology - Avg. # of times urinating at night
Medical Conditions - People with asthma (%)
Medical Conditions - People with anemia (%)
Medical Conditions - People with psoriasis (%)
Medical Conditions - People with overweight (%)
Medical Conditions - Elderly people having difficulties in thinking or remembering (%)
Medical Conditions - People who ever received blood transfusion (%)
Medical Conditions - People having trouble seeing even with glass/contacts (%)
Medical Conditions - People with arthritis (%)
Medical Conditions - People with gout (%)
Medical Conditions - People with congestive heart failure (%)
Medical Conditions - People with coronary heart disease (%)
Medical Conditions - People with angina pectoris (%)
Medical Conditions - People who ever had heart attack (%)
Medical Conditions - People who ever had stroke (%)
Medical Conditions - People with emphysema (%)
Medical Conditions - People with thyroid problem (%)
Medical Conditions - People with chronic bronchitis (%)
Medical Conditions - People with any liver condition (%)
Medical Conditions - People who ever had cancer or malignancy (%)
Mental Health - People who have little interest in doing things (%)
Mental Health - People feeling down, depressed, or hopeless (%)
Mental Health - People who have trouble sleeping or sleeping too much (%)
Mental Health - People feeling tired or having little energy (%)
Mental Health - People with poor appetite or overeating (%)
Mental Health - People feeling bad about themself (%)
Mental Health - People who have trouble concentrating on things (%)
Mental Health - People moving or speaking slowly or too fast (%)
Mental Health - People having thoughts they would be better off dead (%)
Oral Health - Average years since last visit a dentist
Oral Health - People embarrassed because of mouth (%)
Oral Health - People with gum disease (%)
Oral Health - General health of teeth and gums (%)
Oral Health - Average days a week using dental floss/device
Oral Health - Average days a week using mouthwash for dental problem
Oral Health - Average number of teeth
Pesticide Use - Households using pesticides to control insects (%)
Pesticide Use - Households using pesticides to kill weeds (%)
Physical Activity - People doing vigorous-intensity work activities (%)
Physical Activity - People doing moderate-intensity work activities (%)
Physical Activity - People walking or bicycling (%)
Physical Activity - People doing vigorous-intensity recreational activities (%)
Physical Activity - People doing moderate-intensity recreational activities (%)
Physical Activity - Average hours a day doing sedentary activities
Physical Activity - Average hours a day watching TV or videos
Physical Activity - Average hours a day using computer
Physical Functioning - People having limitations keeping them from working (%)
Physical Functioning - People limited in amount of work they can do (%)
Physical Functioning - People that need special equipment to walk (%)
Physical Functioning - People experiencing confusion/memory problems (%)
Physical Functioning - People requiring special healthcare equipment (%)
Prescription Medications - Average number of prescription medicines taking
Preventive Aspirin Use - Adults 40+ taking low-dose aspirin (%)
Reproductive Health - Vaginal deliveries (%)
Reproductive Health - Cesarean deliveries (%)
Reproductive Health - Deliveries resulted in a live birth (%)
Reproductive Health - Pregnancies resulted in a delivery (%)
Reproductive Health - Women breastfeeding newborns (%)
Reproductive Health - Women that had a hysterectomy (%)
Reproductive Health - Women that had both ovaries removed (%)
Reproductive Health - Women that have ever taken birth control pills (%)
Reproductive Health - Women taking birth control pills (%)
Reproductive Health - Women that have ever used Depo-Provera or injectables (%)
Reproductive Health - Women that have ever used female hormones (%)
Sexual Behavior - People 18+ that ever had sex (vaginal, anal, or oral) (%)
Sexual Behavior - Males 18+ that ever had vaginal sex with a woman (%)
Sexual Behavior - Males 18+ that ever performed oral sex on a woman (%)
Sexual Behavior - Males 18+ that ever had anal sex with a woman (%)
Sexual Behavior - Males 18+ that ever had any sex with a man (%)
Sexual Behavior - Females 18+ that ever had vaginal sex with a man (%)
Sexual Behavior - Females 18+ that ever performed oral sex on a man (%)
Sexual Behavior - Females 18+ that ever had anal sex with a man (%)
Sexual Behavior - Females 18+ that ever had any kind of sex with a woman (%)
Sexual Behavior - Average age people first had sex
Sexual Behavior - Average number of female sex partners in lifetime (males 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of female vaginal sex partners in lifetime (males 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average age people first performed oral sex on a woman (18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of woman performed oral sex on in lifetime (18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of male sex partners in lifetime (males 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of male anal sex partners in lifetime (males 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average age people first performed oral sex on a man (18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of male oral sex partners in lifetime (18+)
Sexual Behavior - People using protection when performing oral sex (%)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of times people have vaginal or anal sex a year
Sexual Behavior - People having sex without condom (%)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of male sex partners in lifetime (females 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of male vaginal sex partners in lifetime (females 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of female sex partners in lifetime (females 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Circumcised males 18+ (%)
Sleep Disorders - Average hours sleeping at night
Sleep Disorders - People that has trouble sleeping (%)
Smoking-Cigarette Use - People smoking cigarettes (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ having problems with smell (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ having problems with taste (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ that ever had wisdom teeth removed (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ that ever had tonsils teeth removed (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ that ever had a loss of consciousness because of a head injury (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ that ever had a broken nose or other serious injury to face or skull (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ that ever had two or more sinus infections (%)
Weight - Average height (inches)
Weight - Average weight (pounds)
Weight - Average BMI
Weight - People that are obese (%)
Weight - People that ever were obese (%)
Weight - People trying to lose weight (%)
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