Downtown Dallas pushes to get Subway stations by 2020 (Houston, Austin: rental, lofts)

[Fillmont]

Originally Posted by LAnative10

I dont necesarily think Dallas needs a subway, but rather just more rail reach into downtown. I think with the Green Line to Carrollton/Farmers Branch and the Orange Line to DFW/Irving, it will do some help to downtown. Though I do think it would be nice to have the rail underground downtown. Other than that, above ground works just fine.

I believe the reason that the second line will be partially underground (which is not a subway system, Matt ), is because they want to avoid the crossover with the existing downtown corridor. It is to keep the two lines as separate as possible, as crossing tracks would still lead to scheduling problems.

[Lakewooder]

This has always been talked about as being a subway line until lately when some have tried to steer the line over towards the convention center. In fact it was supposed to be finished in the next few years, far before 2020.

[Fillmont]

Originally Posted by Lakewooder

This has always been talked about as being a subway line until lately when some have tried to steer the line over towards the convention center. In fact it was supposed to be finished in the next few years, far before 2020.

All four possible D2 alignments have some underground track, just some have more than others. (I forget which have the most underground stations!)

[Metro Matt]

Originally Posted by C2H (ComingtoHouston)

Dallas needs a subway right now like Dallas needs mountains. It just looks appealing but there's no dire need for it at the time.

Funny you say that!!! I had a dream last night that South Dallas had mountains & I was up in a skyscraper getting an In-N-Out!!! Hahaha

I'm not joking either!

[case44]

Downtown Dallas needs to make office space a priority right now. We've got the rail system in place now, so we have other proverbial fish to fry just to keep it going. We'll leave the subway bit to Cityplace; they'll be just fine with that and I'm cool with it. Meanwhile, Elm Place and other high-profile buildings need tenants and occupancy. The current rail situation suits downtown just fine, but if downtown continues to lose office space, this will all be such a waste. I would not want to see all of the skyscrapers turned from offices to lofts.

[dv1033]

Originally Posted by Spade

I wish eletricon posted here. If you go to SSP, he explains why a subway is needed over a surface LRT line. I can't explain it better than he can.

Yes DT Dallas needs the rail to go underground because it would be terribly ineffective to cross the LRT at grade. HOWEVER, there are different proposals, ranging in different prices ($800-500 million for just the downtown expansion) depending on the length of the "subway". This expansion is needed, but it should be done in a cost effective manner.

My major qualms about what Dallas is doing with its rail, is that I would call it overly ambitious for a multipolar, low density, sunbelt city. It currently has about average ridership for its length and I don't see that changing significantly as it adds more lines. DFW's biggest weakness is that it doesn't have many densely packed employment centers with expensive/limited parking to cause people to shift to ridership. I fear DFW is putting too much money into rail at the expensive of buses, park&ride, alternative transportation, HOV, etc. which would better serve cities like DFW and Houston. I'm not saying rail isn't neccessary, but it should be implemented cautiously. I will applaud DFW for getting their rail started while Houston is just beginning to get the dirt moving on our expansion. However, Houston has been meeting approvals for federal funding which unfortantely takes time.

Originally Posted by case44

Downtown Dallas needs to make office space a priority right now. We've got the rail system in place now, so we have other proverbial fish to fry just to keep it going. We'll leave the subway bit to Cityplace; they'll be just fine with that and I'm cool with it. Meanwhile, Elm Place and other high-profile buildings need tenants and occupancy. The current rail situation suits downtown just fine, but if downtown continues to lose office space, this will all be such a waste. I would not want to see all of the skyscrapers turned from offices to lofts.

Dallas has overbuilt luxary apartments/condos in inner Dallas and it would be better if those downtown offices remain offices.

[Dallas native]

Originally Posted by dv1033

Dallas has overbuilt luxary apartments/condos in inner Dallas and it would be better if those downtown offices remain offices.

If the market perceives those vacant mid-century office buildings to be obsolete, then commercial tenants are going to continue leasing in the newer Class-A buildings in Downtown & Uptown. So the only alternatives are to re-purpose those buildings or tear them down. I hope that one day they are all converted to some other use rather than being torn down.

[dv1033]

Originally Posted by Dallas native

If the market perceives those vacant mid-century office buildings to be obsolete, then commercial tenants are going to continue leasing in the newer Class-A buildings in Downtown & Uptown. So the only alternatives are to re-purpose those buildings or tear them down. I hope that one day they are all converted to some other use rather than being torn down.

Renovating office buildings into residential buildings is very expensive. I'm not saying it won't happen, but having these sort of vacancies in this current and forseeable market is not good. Dallas's market can only support so many luxary lofts/apts/condos, as we can see from Victory Park's inception.

[Dallas native]

Originally Posted by dv1033

Renovating office buildings into residential buildings is very expensive. I'm not saying it won't happen, but having these sort of vacancies in this current and forseeable market is not good. Dallas's market can only support so many luxary lofts/apts/condos, as we can see from Victory Park's inception.

You are right that we can only support so many residential units in Downtown. But my point is that those older buildings are already there and they are never going to be filled up with commercial tenants again. Yes, it's expensive to renovate the buildings but if we continue to make the core of the city more attractive to everyone and as the population increases, then there will be more demand down the road. Most of those empty buildings are likely to sit vacant for at least another few years though before they are re-purposed.

[dv1033]

Originally Posted by Dallas native

You are right that we can only support so many residential units in Downtown. But my point is that those older buildings are already there and they are never going to be filled up with commercial tenants again. Yes, it's expensive to renovate the buildings but if we continue to make the core of the city more attractive to everyone and as the population increases, then there will be more demand down the road. Most of those empty buildings are likely to sit vacant for at least another few years though before they are re-purposed.

Well here is the issue, and it isn't just a Dallas issue: people and jobs are still overwhelminginly moving to the suburbs. There have been an increase in movement to the inner city this last decade, but the jobs aren't following. I say this because many people tend to think there is some great urban renaissance going on. I think you are right about them sitting vacant for at least 2 years; both Houston and dallas have overbuilt their inner cores with luxary apts, condos, and townhomes.