Relocating to Ft Wayne, IN or Cinci/Dayton OH?? (Cincinnati: real estate, apartment)

[yls]

Hi,
We are considering relocating from TX to Ft Wayne IN (family reasons). Ideally we'd like to own a home with a basement on about 5 acres (4 bd, 2.5 bath, 3 car garage) up to the upper 200's. We'd prefer to be in an area of similar homes (not sure if they have "subdivisions" with these mini-farm homes but would prefer to protect the property values and have certain restrictions such as no mobile homes,etc) and would like some animals (chickens,maybe a goat). Or plan is to rent for a year and really get a feel for the area. Then we may buy a newer home or land and build (probably the latter). So here are our questions:
1. Is this real estate scenario above likely? How far outside the city are these types of properties?
2. How is traffic?
3. How are the schools? We have 2 young children not yet in school but this will be a concern.
* Do they have things such as school choice? Do they do busing?
4. What are the average electric bills (like for a 3000 sq ft home)? (I read some alarming posts about the electricity in OH)
5. Is the weather significantly different between the 2 areas?
6. If anyone is familiar with both IN and OH, how do they compare?
7. Cost of living in general between the two? It seems like OH is more.
8. What about food? Do they have local farmers market and good, cheap produce?

The reason we are adding Cincinatti and Dayton is that there seem to be a lot of job opportunities there. Recruiters have been contacting about jobs there so we are having an open mind.
So for OH, in addition to the above, how would you compare Cincinatti and Dayton?
We were preferring to be in a smaller city. Our concern is that Cinci is a really sprawling place. Although we'd be on the outskirts (around Sharonville). The metro area sizes vary dramatically between them.

Thank you so much for any insight! Obviously we would be planning to visit the areas but just wanted to get some information ahead of time, especially cost of living items.

[dayton_ohio]

Cincinnati is a very large metro area and includes all types of neighborhoods and areas -- from very urban to near-Appalachian communities on the Eastern edge of Cincinnati, rural Kentucky to the South, and rural Indiana to the West. There are a lot of rural areas in between Cincinnati and Dayton, but property values for land can be high in popular areas (near Mason, near Springboro, near West Chester, close to I75).

In general, it will be difficult to find a 5 acre property in a "subdivision" with a homeowner's association. You probably could find 1-2 acre plots in a formal subdivision, or a 5+ acre plot without all the zoning restrictions. You shouldn't have a tough time finding a home with land at your price point.

You probably can find a property like the one you describe within 45 minutes of downtown Cincinnati, maybe within 30 minutes. If you are in Sharonville, you'd need to look to the north (Warren, Bulter, etc. counties) or in Eastern Indiana (off I275).

Traffic in Dayton is a breeze, except for one or two spots. Traffic in Cincinnati can be bad depending on the part of town you live in, where you work, and the commute directions. Travelling from Dayton to Sharonville might get tiresome, but it's not a long commute (30-40 minutes).

Schools in Ohio generally are very good -- I think some of the best in the country. The best districts in Dayton and Cincinnati are comparable and compare well with the best districts anywhere. There are a lot of good districts in both cities. But, the schools in rural areas can be hit or miss. No real school choice in most areas (except maybe Cincinnati public??). No real busing either that I'm aware of.

Utility bills vary, depending mostly on how you heat your house and the temperature you like to keep it. Most of the energy is expended in heating the house from December through February. Our bills are low (<$100 for electric) for most months of the year, but we have shade trees and an efficient HVAC system.

Weather will be similar in all areas. Cincinnati and South Dayton might be slightly more temperate.

Ohio and Indiana seem like very similar states. Ohio seems to have better schools, more social services, and higher taxes. The cost of living might be slightly higher in Ohio because Cincinnati, in particular, would have higher housing costs than Fort Wayne, but Cincinnati is a more desirable market too.

Grocery prices in Cincinnati and Dayton are very cheap because of fierce local competition between Kroger, Meijer, Super Walmart, Super Target, Cub Foods/Biggs, and local grocers (including the fantastic Jungle Jim's in Fairfield, outside Cincinnati, and the fantastic, in a pricier way, Dorothy Lane Market in Dayton). I've lived all over, and I think grocery prices here are at least 20% below the next cheapest place I've lived.

There are farmers markets all area. There also are multiple CSAs. The produce isn't always cheap, but it is often very high quality.

You should take a long weekend to visit all three cities. You'll get a good feel for the areas just by driving around.

[yls]

Thanks for the reply. I had read on some post about the real expensive heating costs....they said a small 3 bedroom place (I don't recall sq feet but it was a townhome and not large at all) and they said it was $400 a month and they kept the place on 68 degrees in the winter! Another poster said they moved from the NE and the heating was much more expensive in OH than in the NE. So I just didn't want to get a huge surprise because that high monthly utility bill would certainly affect our monthly budget

[dayton_ohio]

$400 could be a realistic cost for utilities in the primary winter months, especially last year (when natural gas prices were high) and if the home has an older furnace. I think Ohio is about average for utility costs -- see this government link:

[url=http://www.eia.doe.gov/cneaf/electricity/epm/table5_6_a.html]Electric Power Monthly - Average Retail Price of Electricity to Ultimate Customers by End-Use Sector, by State[/url]

[malachai23]

I live in Dayton in a 2-bd house - about 900 sq ft - and from Dec-Feb my heating bill is usually around $400. I keep the thermo set around 75. Then again, my house is 100 years old and so are the windows

[yls]

Well I guess here in TX I have high bills in the summer months, just the reverse. But here it is about $400/month total for electric, water and wastewater, and trash service. My gas is separate (but basically is just gas oven for cooking...have gas heating only in the winter. Maybe that is $100 but than the combined utilities is only like $150-200/mo as we aren't using the air).

So is the $400/month just for heating???
If so, what do the other utility components run each month (ballpark)?

[dayton_ohio]

We pay about $30 a month for water and trash, maybe $30 a month for gas for hot water, and $50 a month for all other electric.

[malachai23]

Originally Posted by yls

Well I guess here in TX I have high bills in the summer months, just the reverse. But here it is about $400/month total for electric, water and wastewater, and trash service. My gas is separate (but basically is just gas oven for cooking...have gas heating only in the winter. Maybe that is $100 but than the combined utilities is only like $150-200/mo as we aren't using the air).

So is the $400/month just for heating???
If so, what do the other utility components run each month (ballpark)?

Well, $400 is my total gas bill in the winter months. I also have gas range & hot water heater. But they only run me about $25 per month. My electric is around $30 (that's not counting if I run the AC, which I rarely do - it just doesn't get that hot here!).

Now water/sewer/trash will vary from city to city (or township). I live in the city of Dayton and I think ours is relatively inexpensive compared to surrounding communities. I pay approx. $20/month for water/sewer/trash - all City of Dayton. Some communities around here have no city trash and you are required to contract your own through a private company.

Hopefully this helps!

[yls]

Thanks so much!
The recruiter today said that many people live in N Cinci and travel to S Dayton for work, and vice versa. So is that commute not bad? For example, I saw acreage in the Lebanon area.
Our commute in good traffic is about 45 min of stop and go for about 14 miles. We'd like to get some acreage so we understand we'd have to go farther out...but the traffic here makes that pretty much not an option......or not something we'd like to do at least. So that is why the large metro size of 3+ million makes us hesitate. Or maybe it is actually somewhat planned with roads and doesn't have that feel. Here the problem is there was no plannig and nowhere near enough roads for the population.

Are the areas kind of mingling together as part of the urban sprawl? Or is there a distinct feeling between the 2 cities?

[stdatwmu]

Utility costs really can vary - a lot - depending on the size, age, and energy efficiency of the structure.

My apartment, which was about 1,100 sq ft and <10 years old, cost me anywhere from $40-80 a month in electric + gas, year round.

We moved into our house (1500 sq ft, 30 yrs old) in April, so no winter comparison yet, but (and it was quite warm compared to average for a stretch this summer) our highest electric bill (we have no gas, it's all-electric utilities) was only about $95.

For the record, I keep it at 68 on heat and 78 on A/C. Going higher or lower, respectively, can quickly cause the costs to skyrocket!