Would you vote for the proposed 0.4% FasTracks sales tax increase? (Denver: 2013, construction)

[GoneNative]

Originally Posted by zenkonami

Beats "putt-putt wagons" and their endless, congestion inducing highway projects.

Seriously, though, I agree that they should not be cutting so much bus service and that they need to find some real ways to win people over right now...like getting that service back.

Here's the difference: Nobody is making you pay for their "putt-putt wagon," if by that you mean car. You do have to pay for highway projects, but you'll have to pay for those no matter how good public transportation is in Denver. Even New York pays for highways, even though a good many New Yorkers never drive on them. But a very small minority of metro area residents actually use RTD, and yet that small minority wants to pass the buck onto the other 90% who don't use RTD. If you love taking RTD, then nobody is stopping you and the other 10% from financing the system yourselves--except for the fact that that 10% wants to be subsidized by the other 90% who can afford it.

[patrickfatrick]

Originally Posted by KaaBoom

RTD is mismanaged, stop wasting your tax money on their incompetence.

Whether we vote for the new tax or not, the project will be funded by tax dollars (assuming RTD doesn't find federal grant money or private money to fund it sooner), it's just a matter of when we'll be seeing the project finished, ~10 years vs 20 or 30 years. The corridor needs more options, and fast. The project was already approved by voters; whether you agree with it or not, at this point we have to figure out the best way to move forward and finish the thing so the metro area can continue to grow sustainably.

I can't speak to whether RTD is mismanaged. It may very well be true, but I don't think it wasn't really a "miscalculation" that lead us to where we are now, it was lack of sales tax dollars as a result of the recession, combined with increased costs BNSF put on RTD for use of the NW corridor railway. DRCOG, based on what was known at the time in 2004, approved the project and found it financially viable. There was no way to predict what happened in 2008 as far as RTD is concerned.

Originally Posted by davidv

I have voted many times for RTD tax increases. They have responded with deeper and deeper cuts to the service to my area (South Jeffco). I believe that my area could be the most underserved area in the metro area. I will not vote for a higher tax for such bad service.

AFAIK this is something else entirely. The tax increase for FasTracks doesn't contribute to current bus service. Individual route service is cut when there's a lack of demand, i.e. when people stop riding that bus route.

Anyway, that's just my two cents on the issue. I'm not an expert in all of this and may be wrong about something or other, but I would find it disheartening if the NW corridor can't be completed for another 20 or 30 years.

[patrickfatrick]

Originally Posted by wong21fr

Given that RTD has basically rolled over and is promising Boulder and the surrounding communities the most expensive transit system possible, asides from a floating mag-lev, I can't see how it passes given the hammering it will take from anti-transit groups. Instead of making a hard choice and saying that the NW commuter rail is a political-boondoggle that is financially unfeasible and dropping it for comprehensive BRT system, RTD has opted to double down and promise a system that will cost close to $3 billion dollars.

RTD needs to stop trying to please everyone all the time. From excessive bus service, that creates a backlash when it's pared back, to non-realistic rail systems, the pandering has to stop.

I agree. I would much rather see a very well implemented BRT system at far reduced cost and running every 3-6 minutes than an expensive rail system that runs every 30 minutes to an hour. The problem is that rail has already been approved, and Boulder-Louisville-Longmont want to see the promises of 2004 fulfilled. It might be disastrous to put a tax on the ballot without rail. Sad but true.

[AceShopper]

Originally Posted by KaaBoom

RTD is mismanaged, stop wasting your tax money on their incompetence.

http://www.georgiarail.org/wp-conten...ansit-Plan.pdf

Those are aggressive timelines. If they are realistic, what takes RTD so long to implement them in Denver area ? Mismanagement ? Neighborhood density ? Bureaucracy ?

[denverian]

Originally Posted by KaaBoom

You gave them a sale tax increase, to build FastTracks. It's now been eight years, and so far they have not opened even one single mile of new track, and are now out of money. Yet, you want to give them another 0.4% sales tax increase? Which BTW would increase the current RTD tax from 1.0% to 1.4%. Which is a pretty unprecedented amount for a transit tax anywhere in the US.

What makes you so sure that if you give them another tax increase now, it will actually get built this time? Who's to say that in another eight years they wont be back for more money? Oopsie, looks like we made another miscalculation. Sorry voters, looks like we'll need yet another 0.4%.

If you want to get this system built, stop throwing money down a black hole. The RTD management has failed. They need to be held accountable. Heads need to roll. The entire RTD board must be replaced. RTD needs an entire new management team.

Start by hiring some people from Salt Lake City, who know how to get this stuff built. The UTA is Salt Lake City is building a rail network that will blow away all of RTD's rail plans. In 2006 voters there approved just a 0.25% tax increase to accelerate work on their rail system. For that they are getting 70 miles of new rail lines by 2015 added the their existing 64 mile rail network, at a total cost of just just $2.8 billion. Hell, RTD is currently almost that much over budget. And the UTA has been working in the exact economic climate as RTD. So stop with the copout about the recession and rising costs.

RTD is mismanaged, stop wasting your tax money on their incompetence.

http://www.georgiarail.org/wp-conten...ansit-Plan.pdf

Mmmm... I moved here in June of 2005 (almost 7 years ago) and since then the line to the DTC and up 225 opened up. And the western corridor appears to be near completion, with the line to the airport underway. It's not as if nothing has been done in 8 years.

[AceShopper]

Originally Posted by patrickfatrick

I agree. I would much rather see a very well implemented BRT system at far reduced cost and running every 3-6 minutes than an expensive rail system that runs every 30 minutes to an hour. The problem is that rail has already been approved, and Boulder-Louisville-Longmont want to see the promises of 2004 fulfilled. It might be disastrous to put a tax on the ballot without rail. Sad but true.

Personally, I don't see any difference between a good BRT with exclusive HOV lanes -or, a light rail -or, a diesel rail for that matter. But apparently some people will NOT ride a bus but will gladly go on a rail going the same route and taking the same time. As long as the transport runs at a good clip, is convenient and does not cost more than using my car - I would go for it.

My problem is with the completion dates - 2020 : 2030 : 2040 ! Why does it take that long to build if there is pressing need *right now* ? If the dates were 2015 or sooner, I would agree to a sales tax increase.

[BoulderWhitewater]

Originally Posted by AceShopper

Personally, I don't see any difference between a good BRT with exclusive HOV lanes -or, a light rail -or, a diesel rail for that matter. But apparently some people will NOT ride a bus but will gladly go on a rail going the same route and taking the same time. As long as the transport runs at a good clip, is convenient and does not cost more than using my car - I would go for it.

My problem is with the completion dates - 2020 : 2030 : 2040 ! Why does it take that long to build if there is pressing need *right now* ? If the dates were 2015 or sooner, I would agree to a sales tax increase.

I agree that a BRT with exclusive lanes is better than rail. Unfortunetly the BRT does not serve the east areas of Louisville, Layfette and Erie.
Nor is RTD promising exclusive bus lanes. The odds of the tax passing are slim to none. The people in the NW corridor feel screwed and the people in the southern metro area, ALREADY have their light rail, who does that leave to support a doubling of the tax.

Want to look at Salt Lake City and see why and how they are doing so much better.

[Willy702]

I think people will be more on board once they get some of the current projects online. Open the west line and get something to the airport and voters wont feel like its such a black hole. Build the BRT first and then see if the NW thinks its so important to get a train for the route and more importantly people can truly assess how much ridership such a route would generate.

[patrickfatrick]

Originally Posted by GoneNative

Here's the difference: Nobody is making you pay for their "putt-putt wagon," if by that you mean car. You do have to pay for highway projects, but you'll have to pay for those no matter how good public transportation is in Denver. Even New York pays for highways, even though a good many New Yorkers never drive on them. But a very small minority of metro area residents actually use RTD, and yet that small minority wants to pass the buck onto the other 90% who don't use RTD. If you love taking RTD, then nobody is stopping you and the other 10% from financing the system yourselves--except for the fact that that 10% wants to be subsidized by the other 90% who can afford it.

Even aside from highway funding, we pay for cars in a lot of ways. As of 2008 the US spends $230 billion a year on car accidents and the related medical and legal costs a year (and don't forget that these things affect how much we pay in health and car insurance). We pay for the police officers that enforce speed limits and other driving violations. There are costs associated with all those big parking lots that affect those who don't drive. We also have to pay for the 30,000+ fatalities a year from car accidents, 700+ bicyclists and 4,000+ pedestrians killed every year, and one million animals killed by cars every day. And of course, there's the 5 trillion tons of carbon cars emit every year into the atmosphere that could potentially lead to all sortsa of problems we have to pay for down the road.

I'll admit I'm a bit of a hippy dippy liberal, but I'm not opposed to cars on the whole (I own one with my girlfriend and use it every now and then). At the same time, however, it's hard to deny that getting as many off the road as possible will benefit us all, not just those who ride the bus already. The population is growing and new people are moving to the Denver metro every year; do you really think that adding lanes to the highways is going to solve everything?

[denverian]

Originally Posted by Willy702

I think people will be more on board once they get some of the current projects online. Open the west line and get something to the airport and voters wont feel like its such a black hole. Build the BRT first and then see if the NW thinks its so important to get a train for the route and more importantly people can truly assess how much ridership such a route would generate.

When is the west line scheduled to open? Seems like they're nearing the end.